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  #1  
Old 01-19-2010
jan ameling jan ameling is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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jan ameling
Default Do you put any power into your arm stroke or not?

Hi my friends, it's me again. Do tell me if I'm getting anoying and I'll quiet down for a while. Having said that, I'd like to ask you guys a question.

Today I swam for about an hour, as usual. About halfway during the session, I asked two of my swimming buddies (just ordinary buddies, not TI buddies) if they would be so kind to just have a look at my technique, while I swim 200 meters freestyle, and tell me what they noticed and what I could improve.

When I finished the 200m my friends told me that my stroke looks good, but there doesn't seem to be any power or strenght involved in my armstroke.
I know they are right. When I swim slowy I don't put any power into my pull at all.

Then they asked me to swim at a faster pace for 50m. When I finished the 50m they told me 'that's it, now your doing it right.'

Sorry I know, blablabla... ehm...

What am I doing wrong? should I put more power into my underwater pull (with underwater pull I rather mean the part from an extended arm in front, until your hand exits the water at your hips/ thighs, you know, the whole underwater pull phase).

And does this sound familiair to you guys? Do you put any power in it at all?

Thanks!


PS. One of those buddies will record my stroke on video this thursday. I will try to upload it then and post the link on this forum.

Last edited by jan ameling : 01-19-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2010
RadSwim RadSwim is offline
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Location: Texas, USA
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RadSwim
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Here is a previous post of mine that is germane.

http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...6&postcount=31

And another one.

http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...13&postcount=8

Last edited by RadSwim : 01-19-2010 at 08:12 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2010
atreides atreides is offline
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Join Date: May 2009
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atreides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan ameling View Post
Hi my friends, it's me again. Do tell me if I'm getting anoying and I'll quiet down for a while. Having said that, I'd like to ask you guys a question.

Today I swam for about an hour, as usual. About halfway during the session, I asked two of my swimming buddies (just ordinary buddies, not TI buddies) if they would be so kind to just have a look at my technique, while I swim 200 meters freestyle, and tell me what they noticed and what I could improve.

When I finished the 200m my friends told me that my stroke looks good, but there doesn't seem to be any power or strenght involved in my armstroke.
I know they are right. When I swim slowy I don't put any power into my pull at all.

Then they asked me to swim at a faster pace for 50m. When I finished the 50m they told me 'that's it, now your doing it right.'

Sorry I know, blablabla... ehm...

What am I doing wrong? should I put more power into my underwater pull (with underwater pull I rather mean the part from an extended arm in front, until your hand exits the water at your hips/ thighs, you know, the whole underwater pull phase).

And does this sound familiair to you guys? Do you put any power in it at all?

Thanks!


PS. One of those buddies will record my stroke on video this thursday. I will try to upload it then and post the link on this forum.
Considering what I'm working on, that's a pretty intriguing question. Over the last two or three weeks, i discovered I was cutting off my stroke. Instead pulling all the away through, I was exiting at my hips. I have now corrected that and pull through my mid-thigh (I have long arms). This has added power to my stroke which alows me to ride higher in the water. The other thing that I'm working on is the timing of the hip driven rotation which I think pertains to what you are talking about.

In particular, I've been working on the timing of the pull and the weight shift. I think I recall one video referring to the manuever as similar to what an inline skater does. So almost simultaneous to the weight shift (I'm rotating first I think), I'm engaging the pull. When I do this I feel pretty powerful although most good traditional swimmers blow by me (I use a two beat kick). The reason why your question is a good one is that I usually don't get arm tired per se. But after my session, I notice a good deal of fatigue in my shoulders and lats. I don't know if this is good or bad. TI preaches effortless swimming and I really can't quarrel with that per se. But I think I'm getting a pretty good workout. What your friend might be seeing when you sprint is a more concerted weight shift which delivers more core power which allows your amrs to move more quickly through the water. This could be what they are seeing. Otherwise if you are actually using more arm action, then might try to use the core rotation weight shifts to supply the energy that you are providing from your arms. This should allow you maintain your good TI technique but generate a more power. Since my goal is to swim consecutive laps comfortably (I'm still doing them 25 meters at a time), I'll leave the speed quest up to you guys.
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2010
rajsenthil rajsenthil is offline
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rajsenthil
Default no more pull with my arms

I am practicing TI for more than a year and consider myself to be a learner. Only two days back, I realized how the body roll could initiate the pull. It was amazing to feel the the catch(i guess), with out any pull. There was no "umph" but still could generate the power to propel the body. When I do the pull, the palm, wrist, forehand, shoulder acts individually. When the body roll initiates the catch, it all acts in unison and the effort is much much less than the pull. With this new experience and focusing that in mind, I did as many as 65 laps and I felt great. I would never put power in my arm and try to pull again.
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
Default swimming many people don't tell you how to walk,run, so why swim!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajsenthil;8587
I am practicing TI for more than a year and consider myself to be a learner. Only two days back, I realized how the body roll could initiate the pull.
It was amazing to feel the the catch (i guess), with out any pull.
There was no "umph" but still could generate the power to propel the body. When I do the pull, the palm, wrist, forehand, shoulder acts individually
When the body roll initiates the catch,
it all acts in unison and the effort is much much less than the pull.
With this new experience and focusing that in mind,
I did as many as 65 laps and I felt great.
I would never put power in my arm and try to pull again.
I would never put power in my arm or hand and try to pull again!
EITHER
BUT
THAT'S JUST ME hehe haha

No shoulder rotatory cuff surgery for me!
no thanks!
join the crowd....
i don't tell 'em to swim like me!
but
if they choose to, they can!
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2010
sasquatch sasquatch is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jordan, Utah
Posts: 62
sasquatch
Default energy managment

Jan,

I don't remember where I saw the article or all the details, but it was about how Jason Lezak (fastest 100 m split in history) is notorious for swimming slowly/methodically in workouts then turning in fast times when he decides to apply the power to his finely tuned stroke.

I've said it on here before but how much power you decide to put into your stroke depends on how far and how fast you want to go. If you're going to sprint 25 or 50 m, you can afford to apply much more with your arms (and legs) than if you're trying to maintain your stroke length and tempo for a longer distance. When you decide to add power to sprint the correct form you've imprinted while swimming slowly and mindfully translates into much faster forward motion.
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2010
CoachEricDeSanto CoachEricDeSanto is offline
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CoachEricDeSanto
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This is what I feel when I swim. There is pressure on my arm, but less than most people think. Once a swim a given distance or time (say your fast 50), I try to match that swim with less effort. You can apply pressure during the pull, but as you try to match your swims with less effort, you will realize that the pull is a remarkably low priority.
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2010
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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I don't feel any pull, but I think that's because I never give any thought to pulling with the leading arm. Once it's out in front fully extended, I switch focus to the other arm, concentrating on making sure it enters the water at the right place and spears to its target properly. When I do this, the leading arm catch happens automatically.

I was in the pool yesterday with a friend who has done a lot more swimming than me, including triathlons. We compared strokes. He said his focus is on pulling hard to get propulsion. Result: he took 8 hand entries to do a length while I took 6.

If efficiency is your aim, forget about pulling. Let the catch happen as a consequence of doing the other things well.
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2010
jan ameling jan ameling is offline
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jan ameling
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Ok. I read all your posts and it has been really hepful to me, especially RadSwim's posts. Thank you.
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2010
flppr flppr is offline
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Location: San Diego, California
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flppr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I don't feel any pull, but I think that's because I never give any thought to pulling with the leading arm. Once it's out in front fully extended, I switch focus to the other arm, concentrating on making sure it enters the water at the right place and spears to its target properly. When I do this, the leading arm catch happens automatically.
thanks for that. very helpful. recently, i was told by a coach that i was pulling too hard, that i needed to get my propulsion from rotation. now i think i know how to initiate that rotation, with the spearing hand.
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