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  #11  
Old 03-12-2018
IngeA IngeA is offline
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IngeA
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There will not be many men (perhaps the really young ones) with enough shoulder flexibility to do the exercise like this without making a banana.
And I doubt that this is the goal of the exercise.

To archive this in whole stroke you had to spear over the horizontal line which mostly leads rather more to sinking legs than a deeper spear an which definitively makes a good catch nearly impossible.

Best regards
Inge
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2018
liolio
 
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Still can edit posts.
I would want to add that an excessive cervical lordosis may impair the proper motion "the body" makes a move on its own to realize the required task, a mean to an end. What we do can be quite different from what we think we do.

Fr example the breathing motion but feel like an extension forward of the tip of head while the chin rotate. Pretty much the head alignement should feel connected with the hand that is spearing FORWARD. You are extending forward your neck and head along with the spearing arm and that make "room" for a proper rotation of the chin. You can practice airborn and see how fast it is and why to various extend lots of people "lose" breathing time or have breathing time throwing their stroke out of balance.

Naturally you tend to either rise the head or have the head to back away from the forward motion whereas it is every bit as a forward movement as the whole stroke, you breath "forward" with a rotation, it is connected to the opposite arm/shoulder extension.
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  #13  
Old 03-12-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liolio View Post
Still can edit posts.
I would want to add that an excessive cervical lordosis may impair the proper motion "the body" makes a move on its own to realize the required task, a mean to an end. What we do can be quite different from what we think we do.

Fr example the breathing motion but feel like an extension forward of the tip of head while the chin rotate. Pretty much the head alignement should feel connected with the hand that is spearing FORWARD. You are extending forward your neck and head along with the spearing arm and that make "room" for a proper rotation of the chin. You can practice airborn and see how fast it is and why to various extend lots of people "lose" breathing time or have breathing time throwing their stroke out of balance.

Naturally you tend to either rise the head or have the head to back away from the forward motion whereas it is every bit as a forward movement as the whole stroke, you breath "forward" with a rotation, it is connected to the opposite arm/shoulder extension.
Yes the breath is with forward momentum and in time with the rhythm of the stroke, spear and turn away, face back down in time with catch lock on.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IngeA View Post
There will not be many men (perhaps the really young ones) with enough shoulder flexibility to do the exercise like this without making a banana.
And I doubt that this is the goal of the exercise.

To archive this in whole stroke you had to spear over the horizontal line which mostly leads rather more to sinking legs than a deeper spear an which definitively makes a good catch nearly impossible.

Best regards
Inge
rethe floating pencil drill i dont your meant to swim with arms on the surface like that (although i tried it once and was actually "on top of the water" and felt like i had handly any drag, like high speed skimming, it was very energy sapping
but fast.

i think the idea is to make the level position but then spear deeper at shoulder level with the poweful kick balancing out the lower arms maintaining torso hip levelness

The actually key to that drill is right at the end where richard quick tells shelly ripple to implode and go to swimming posture

the is "grow your neck" & pull the ribcage up and in

but if you just "grow the monkey bump" (see my other thread) you will find that it will correct your posture and pull everything taught linking hips to sholders as one unit and also it will tilt the shoulder blades back slightly making them move more freely throughout the arm cycle

i spent 1hr in the pool this morning playing about with growing my neck and the great effects it had on my whole body connection in the stroke

i did relaxed / fast regular high elbow and some straight arm rolling connected like a barrel in the water.

Tried it on breast too which seemed to keep forward momentum better when raising the head for a breath, if you cock it back it really stifles forward momentum at a critical time.
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  #15  
Old 03-12-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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P.S it makes diaphramtic breathing easier where yoyr ribcage is pulled up snd in not only is it solidly connecting hips to shoulders as one unit it also prevents upper chest breathing and so breathing is done deep in the belly freeing shoulders up even more.
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  #16  
Old 03-12-2018
liolio
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat View Post
P.S it makes diaphramtic breathing easier where yoyr ribcage is pulled up snd in not only is it solidly connecting hips to shoulders as one unit it also prevents upper chest breathing and so breathing is done deep in the belly freeing shoulders up even more.
The rib cage also have to be well connected to your abs which to various extend is not the case for many people (I mean various level of flaring rib cage, not pathologic but as you get into exercizing the weakness show and can develop into an issue either wrt to sport or health as you can unknowingly further the issue).

The body has to act as one, in our sedentary daily life we tend to forget till we want to accomplish at more demanding task we like (in that case swimming). Often issue we face in swimming others activity is in part due to the miss usage we have of our bodies :|
I though of that lately as our modern day culture is quite ignorant to the body functioning more than often yo may need more of a physical therapist than trainer (no matter the sport you are engaged into).I've in mind a video off Jeff Cavaliere (athlean-x on youtube, a physical therapist /personan trainer) , a massive WWF wrestler comes to visit for advices and as you watch you realize the the guy whereas massive has weakness (relatively) and imbalances, as done exercises wrong like forever, etc Yet by the look of the guy you would take his word on the matter of body building without question. It may explain why some time relatively lesser men or women are so strong: extremely well connected kinetic chains with lesser muscles engaging when they have to and larger group following step, etc.
In our days and age I think people want the esthetic of the body without real respect to the incredible complexity and cleverness of the body mechanics, there may be some ancient Greek up in the sky watching over us and crying... lol


As an example my neck hurts on the bad days (often) I can't really breath well on the left (which is my clean breathing side).
The most demanding stroke for the "whole body connection" seems to be butterfly, you need strong (and even) shoulder which remain connected to the torso and the later strongly connected to the pelvis, etc.
M right shoulder has weakness so I diffuse energy early in the stroke, I not only do not at as a spring but I also lose my line, etc => failure whereas I think I have the fundamental of the stroke down.
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liolio View Post
The rib cage also have to be well connected to your abs which to various extend is not the case for many people (I mean various level of flaring rib cage, not pathologic but as you get into exercizing the weakness show and can develop into an issue either wrt to sport or health as you can unknowingly further the issue).

The body has to act as one, in our sedentary daily life we tend to forget till we want to accomplish at more demanding task we like (in that case swimming). Often issue we face in swimming others activity is in part due to the miss usage we have of our bodies :|
I though of that lately as our modern day culture is quite ignorant to the body functioning more than often yo may need more of a physical therapist than trainer (no matter the sport you are engaged into).I've in mind a video off Jeff Cavaliere (athlean-x on youtube, a physical therapist /personan trainer) , a massive WWF wrestler comes to visit for advices and as you watch you realize the the guy whereas massive has weakness (relatively) and imbalances, as done exercises wrong like forever, etc Yet by the look of the guy you would take his word on the matter of body building without question. It may explain why some time relatively lesser men or women are so strong: extremely well connected kinetic chains with lesser muscles engaging when they have to and larger group following step, etc.
In our days and age I think people want the esthetic of the body without real respect to the incredible complexity and cleverness of the body mechanics, there may be some ancient Greek up in the sky watching over us and crying... lol


As an example my neck hurts on the bad days (often) I can't really breath well on the left (which is my clean breathing side).
The most demanding stroke for the "whole body connection" seems to be butterfly, you need strong (and even) shoulder which remain connected to the torso and the later strongly connected to the pelvis, etc.
M right shoulder has weakness so I diffuse energy early in the stroke, I not only do not at as a spring but I also lose my line, etc => failure whereas I think I have the fundamental of the stroke down.
Have you tried growing your neck? It really works i walked 2 miles to the pool and 2 miles back this morning focussing on that and my walking gait was effortless, with the posture correctly aligned the body is is in its true optimum state

its in its truest state when exhaling too.

i practice the martial art of iaido (japanese swordsmanship) but its reallya way if moving the body in its correct postural alignment, transfered alot over to swimming it has.
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  #18  
Old 03-12-2018
liolio
 
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I'm currently doing a lot of thing wrt my neck, spine and overall posture :)
I got results already , it is improving though I started from a quite rusty state. I hurt oftn but I keep the faith looking at the progress I made.

For example I may a breakthrough (fining my line or close) mostly by partly unlocking a neck which was not moving right. I would say it was like a partly "frozen" shoulder. LOts of (inner) crunchy noises later as soon as it unlocked I found my line and my body rotation and shoulder line work together on their own. Still work to do, pain but I can expect it to fix itself even in months when the issues grew in decades.

I definitely see the link between swimming and swordmanship, the spine and the shoulders can't be tight, it has to flow. Another thing that was rusty, the whole manubrium/sternum/coast pseudo articulation and the rib (proper/real) articulations with the spine. I was incredibly stiff I improve a lot on that front too. I see stronger people that are quite stiff I tend to notice those things since have done part of the work for myself.

Our culture is severely lacking and forgot lots of the wisdom some others cultures managed to preserve, we need a Renaissance :) (though that means shacking the power structure of our societies and that is another story and OT lol).
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liolio View Post
I'm currently doing a lot of thing wrt my neck, spine and overall posture :)
I got results already , it is improving though I started from a quite rusty state. I hurt oftn but I keep the faith looking at the progress I made.

For example I may a breakthrough (fining my line or close) mostly by partly unlocking a neck which was not moving right. I would say it was like a partly "frozen" shoulder. LOts of (inner) crunchy noises later as soon as it unlocked I found my line and my body rotation and shoulder line work together on their own. Still work to do, pain but I can expect it to fix itself even in months when the issues grew in decades.

I definitely see the link between swimming and swordmanship, the spine and the shoulders can't be tight, it has to flow. Another thing that was rusty, the whole manubrium/sternum/coast pseudo articulation and the rib (proper/real) articulations with the spine. I was incredibly stiff I improve a lot on that front too. I see stronger people that are quite stiff I tend to notice those things since have done part of the work for myself.

Our culture is severely lacking and forgot lots of the wisdom some others cultures managed to preserve, we need a Renaissance :) (though that means shacking the power structure of our societies and that is another story and OT lol).
Yes, there is much to learn from the old ways, it's partly why i practice swordsmanship, to preserve the skills and knowledge and one day pass them on.
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  #20  
Old 03-14-2018
Tom65 Tom65 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello Tom65,



First: I don't like discussions with BS as an argument, and am glad they are extremely rare in the TI-forums. So this will be my last statement in this thread.

Second: If you found your way to swim and feel well and maybe even arrived the end of your strived at goals, nobody should dissuade you.

Third: Your statement about your hand out of surface... Hmmm, it will really help you to level your body parallel to surface, but only in a static (not moving forward) position. It's hard to believe (for me) that this will really be streamlined with a streamline parallel to surface. And if you're going to move your front arm, with hand above surface down to a catch/pull/push or however you'll call it, you have to press it down against the water. If you do that forcefully you might push your head out of the water like a dolphin and feel easier to get a breath, but you'll cause your legs to sink even more and worse, you'll initiate an unwanted bopping. And you put power into all that non-propulsion-movements. You do like that? Great!

Fourth: And now finally I'll shut up in this thread.

Best regards,
Werner
Was talking about floating. Relaxing my body didn't help me float. Hands above head i.e stretched out longways did.

Think this will be true for a lot of people that haven't found floating easy.
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