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  #1  
Old 11-02-2011
redcliffe redcliffe is offline
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redcliffe
Default Throwing an arm

Hi, I've been working through the drills from the book. I'm trying to get some good improvements in 1500m. I spent a huge amount of time on each new drill, but I'm still not totally happy with the feel. The roll in my "new freestyle" is feeling quite exageratted.

Also I've always seemed to have a problem sometimes where I throw my right arm. I don't really notice when doing it, but can correct it when concentrating. I've uploaded a couple of videos to youtube of my practice. I'd appreciate it if someone might be able to have a look and tell me whether it looks ok and what I might need to work on?

Triple Overswitch
New stroke

I've been swimming for four years now, and been working to improve long distance efficiency for a long time before doing TI. Typically I start at about 38-40 strokes per 50, but by the second or third lap I'm back down to 44 or more strokes. Maximum is about 48 when I'm tired at the end of a 1500. My best in a 1500 is just over 21 minutes. Trying to get under 20 and keep that efficiency all the way. Thanks,

David

Last edited by redcliffe : 11-02-2011 at 01:28 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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What leaps out is that your right arm recovers hand-first rather than elbow-first.
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2011
mjm mjm is offline
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Default Elbow and Hand

Red: lots to like in your swimming: nice, horizontal position, feet stay together while kicking and rotating, 16 strokes in about 25 seconds for 25 meters is good. Your 1500 race pace is 21 seconds/25 meters or so.

Hard to tell for sure but it looks like your elbow leads your catch. That means you get no "grip" on the water until your hand in under your shoulder. Try to position you forearm and hand with a high elbow as far out in front as possible and start your catch there.

Your hand exits the water facing your thigh. Instead bring it out facing back towards the wall behind you and let your elbow swing out away from your body instead of up and over. That will help your rotate "just enough". Your straight right-arm recovery while breathing should improve as well. mjm

Last edited by mjm : 11-02-2011 at 10:20 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-02-2011
swimust swimust is offline
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time to work on the elbow lead during the recovery. you dont have it yet. you will be a good TI swimmer, just have patience and take your time.
see CoachSuzanne "before and after" videos. She started working on the recovery elbow lead and she looked different after that.
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Great work! You clearly lead with the elbow on recovery on the left side, so I won't be redundant in pointing out what you already know regarding the right. I believe you also know or understand how to "fix" the issue...you just need to focus on it.

So, other things that will speed you along in your mastery of freestyle:

1) Eliminate the pause at the back portion of the stroke where your arm lays on your side for a moment. Coach Dave calls this the "poisonous pause". As you finish the stroke, continue to keep the recoverying elbow in motion. The glide phase will occur as your arm is recovering, not while the arm is laying by your side.

This focus may give you another thing to help your right arm recovery. Focus on continuously moving elbows and see how that feels. Your rate will icnrease a little bit, but your deceleration between strokes will decrease, and you'll reach your next propulsive moment a bit sooner.


2) Kick less. Right now you may not be noticing accleration/decelleration in your stroke becuase your legs are constantly kicking. When watchign the olympians on competition we may see them using a 6 beat kick and in some strokes, this is helpful. But right now you want to uncover your weak spots so that you can improve on them. The continuous kicking is covering up the problem raised in #1. When the glide is too long, you slow down. The correction is to recover the arm more quickly (but unhurried) so that you can reach your next propulsive moment sooner.

The other positive aspect of slowing down your kicking is to save energy in the legs and learn how the 2 beat kick aids in rotatign the body from one side to the other through the core.
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2011
swimust swimust is offline
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@CoachSuzanne,
hi, if he is aware of the elbow lead in recovery why isnt he doing it on the right hand also? in my opinion the left hand is doing it by coincidence. If he was aware of elbow lead in recovery, he would have focused on doing that on the right side as well (mindful swimming). The left side elbow lead happened by accident because it felt comfortable in some stage.
Its no big deal. He will work on it and be a good swimmer. He looks good in other things.
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  #7  
Old 11-02-2011
harling harling is offline
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Default Throwing an arm

I am no where near your speed, that speed for 1500m is very good. So in my less than expert view, one thing I would suggest you do "finger tip drag" on your right hand, to stop your hand shooting up and forward. I used to have a right arm that did that (but a lot worse), and I sorted it out completely by always dragging my right hand fingers along the surface of the water/touching the water for weeks and months on end. It is difficult to feel where your hand is otherwise. Your left arm looks wonderful, I don't have the shoulder flexibility to make mine look like that.

You probably know anyway, but I hadn't spotted anyone else suggesting it (sorry if they have). Good luck.
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  #8  
Old 11-02-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimust View Post
@CoachSuzanne,
hi, if he is aware of the elbow lead in recovery why isnt he doing it on the right hand also? in my opinion the left hand is doing it by coincidence. If he was aware of elbow lead in recovery, he would have focused on doing that on the right side as well (mindful swimming). The left side elbow lead happened by accident because it felt comfortable in some stage.
Its no big deal. He will work on it and be a good swimmer. He looks good in other things.
The elbow lead is anything but an accident. I'll suggest that what he's donig on the right side is an accident. He may not be doing it because he may be focusing on doing bilateral drills...both sides at once, when he simply may need to spend time focusing ONLY on what the right arm is doing.
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #9  
Old 11-02-2011
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
The elbow lead is anything but an accident. I'll suggest that what he's donig on the right side is an accident. He may not be doing it because he may be focusing on doing bilateral drills...both sides at once, when he simply may need to spend time focusing ONLY on what the right arm is doing.
Ok, as I said, you have much more knowledge and experience than me.
I just thought that if he saw other TI swimmers, then he must have been aware of the need of elbow lead in recovery in both hands. If he isnt aware then he doesnt know about elbow lead. I guess you know better, no sweat :)
I just want to learn and make myself a better swimmer and I am doing ok at present. You were right about the lats so I guess that you are right here also.
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2011
redcliffe redcliffe is offline
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Thanks all. I haven't really been thinking about elbow position, except in the catch where coaches have encouraged me to keep a high elbow. The action in the left arm on recovery has been deliberate from lots of practice prior to my TI work. I've always been feeling as if both arms are doing the same thing, but particularly when I'm working hard or sprinting that right one is doing that throw. Till I saw this latest video I hadn't realised I was still doing it after the TI drills.

So far the main thing I've got out of TI is the whole body roll. Previously it was just my shoulders rolling and not so much. I'm still not feeling like I'm swimming past my hand.

Also BTW in case it wasn't clear I'm swimming metres. Thanks,

David
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