Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-30-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
If the effect is exponential that's a big leap forward. Most changes don't have such an effect.

I have never understood the whole vs. sum of parts distinction. Surely all things are the sum of their parts.

By the whole being more than the sum of the parts I mean, if you get 6/8 (8 being a nominal value) elements of good freestyle correct you will go more than 33% faster if you get 8/8 correct. Therefore the whole is greater than the sum of the parts?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-30-2011
che9194 che9194 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 49
che9194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I have never understood the whole vs. sum of parts distinction. Surely all things are the sum of their parts.
Definitely not.

Systems where the whole is equal to the sum of the parts are called linear systems. Each component is independent of the others. Systems where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts are called non-linear systems. Each component may influence other components.

As we all experience first hand in the pool, swimming is a non-linear system with dozens of competing and connecting constraints and tradeoffs. A small change in one part of your stroke can affect several other parts of the stroke. That's why your 25m freestyle speed can't simply be calculated by adding 25m kicking drill to 25m pull buoy drill.

The real world is very nonlinear - I hope this helps your understanding!

Last edited by che9194 : 10-31-2011 at 02:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-31-2011
Grant Grant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sooke, BC. Canada
Posts: 581
Grant
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by che9194 View Post
Definitely not.

Systems where the whole is equal to the sum of the parts are called linear systems. Each component is independent of the others. Systems where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts are called non-linear systems. Each component may influence other components.

As we all experience first hand in the pool, swimming is a non-linear system with dozens of competing and connecting constraints and tradeoffs. A small change in one part of your stroke can affect several other parts of the stroke. That's why your 25m freestyle time can't simply be calculated by adding 25m kicking drill to 25m pull buoy drill.

The real world is very nonlinear - I hope this helps your understanding!
Thank you that is the distinction that clarifies.
__________________
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
Grant
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-31-2011
Scotty Scotty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 83
Scotty
Default

I think that one way of testing Lawrence's proposition is reflecting on how we progressed in our swimming distance. The incremental swimmer will have gained distance by logging additional laps by increments of 25 or 50 yards after x weeks or months of practice.

The "great leaps" swimmer will work up to a certain number of yards and then realize that he/she can swim as long as they want.

Alas, I am an incremental swimmer and set a target of increasing my distance 25 yards per month. I have never had the feeling that I had cleared an emotional or physical hurdle and could swim until I got bored.

This is one of the great mysteries of swimming. Think back on how you learned to ride a bike. Once the training wheels came off, a parent usually balanced the bike while you rode. When they let go you fell after peddling only a few seconds.

Then one day they let you go and you rode off (with some wobbling) into the sunset. After that experience not one of us thought that we would continue to practice riding 100 yards and try to improve our distance 25 yards per week.

This is precisely what makes swimming such a challenge and joy for me. Every effort toward progress by changing focus and technique has the potential of disrupting some other stroke mechanic. You simply accept that and move on. At least at this point of my TI journey, the need for mental focus is relentless.

I long for the day that I can swim on "automatic pilot" but after three years of diligent TI workouts that has yet to occur. Maybe tomorrow's workout will be the breakthrough. If not, the journey is still immensely satisfying.

Scotty
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-31-2011
richescott richescott is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
richescott
Default Getting it

My "getting it" moment occurred this week and it was very non-linear! I started TI training 3 months ago as a 55 year old novice swimmer. While I'm in fairly good physical condition, I could only swim 3 laps without running out of air when I started. I worked on TI drills daily for the past 3 months, but seemed to see little progress in the distance I could swim whole stroke.

Occasionally I felt at ease in the water, but the feeling was fleeting. Most of the time I felt like I was starting to sink by the time I got to the far wall. I stopped concerning myself with how far I could swim and instead focused on how well I could maintain a focal point. This week the pieces came together when the effort went down and my breathing skill improved. Today I realized that I was only stopping at the wall out of habit, not because I needed to get more air and refocus. So I decided to turn and keep going. 35 laps later (25 meter pool) I was still not out of breath or tired! But I could tell that my technique was getting ragged and, rather than practice error, I decided to stop and declare victory - at least for this big step!

I have lots of room for growth in my freestyle. It's much easier to breath on my right side and I still don't get this "holding water" sensation. But I have confidence now that someday, by focusing on continual improvement, I will be an expert TI swimmer!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-31-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 804
Lawrence
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by che9194 View Post
Systems where the whole is equal to the sum of the parts are called linear systems. Each component is independent of the others.
Could we have an example?

I notice no one has responded to my kettle question.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-31-2011
Mike Wray Mike Wray is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 90
Mike Wray
Default

Lawrence,
I did give a musical example (above) which demonstrates how if one aspect affects another the sum can be more than the original parts.
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-31-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 804
Lawrence
Default

And the kettle? I suspect from the above that everything is more than the sum of its parts, in which case the phrase has no significance.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-31-2011
Mike Wray Mike Wray is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 90
Mike Wray
Default

Hi Lawrence,
The significance of the phrase in relation to swimming is surely to emphasize the fact that if you make an improvement in one area the result on the whole stroke may be greater than the improvement of the one area. For instance if you make a change that reduces resistance you may swim faster just because of that but it may also improve the bow wave allowing you to breath easier, even though your breathing technique hasn't changed, therefore further improving speed.
More generally the phrase may be used a way of expressing the sometimes surprising result of a combination which may not have been anticipated by looking at the individual constituents.
It doesn't apply to everything. The weight of a pile of bricks is equal to the weight of each one times the number.
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-31-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 804
Lawrence
Default

Bricks don't interact with each other, so I think that's a poor example. I note no one has given an example of a 'linear' system.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.