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  #11  
Old 12-09-2010
mjm mjm is offline
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mjm
Default Try a little speed

Drone: if your distance and time is correct (2.3k in about 60 min) then your average pace is about 2:36/100 meters according to this calculator:
http://www.bx3.com/phil/tri/tricalc.asp?show=swim

That breaks down to about 39 seconds/25 meters at 14 strokes per length or 1 stroke/every 2.78 seconds. Why not bump it up a little, say to 1 stroke every 2.6 seconds? Stop, if needed, after 500 meters, 100 meters, 25 meters or whenever you feel stressed. Try to slowly increase the distance you can swim at 2.6 while still maintaining the same 14 SPL. --mjm
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2010
ernewill ernewill is offline
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KatieK,
Very helpful. Thanks! Nice spreadsheet.
Ted
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2010
drone drone is offline
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I estimate my SR to be 2.75 seconds... I wasn't joking about relaxed. I think that the fine suggestions above will surely help to move me along a little more quickly - with an expenditure of a little more energy.
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2010
Alex-SG Alex-SG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drone View Post
I estimate my SR to be 2.75 seconds... I wasn't joking about relaxed. I think that the fine suggestions above will surely help to move me along a little more quickly - with an expenditure of a little more energy.
Drone,

This seems totally odd. How can you possibly swim at a SR=2.75?
Send us a Video....

SR=2.0 is already way too slow because your body comes to a stop and then you have to re-accelerate again. In addition, if you swim at SR=2.75, it means that you breathe every 5.5sec (assuming one side breathing) which would take most people out of breath quickly I would think.

In my humble view, assuming you indeed take SPL=14 at SR=2.75, you should really try to speed up to SR=1.7-2.0 at least in the beginning. By doing that you may consume more energy but you will breathe more frequently so extra oxygen can help. And by the way, that is still too slow. Your next target should be SR=1.5 (what people in the Forum seem to think is the slowest "swimmable" rate).

Ask someone to time how much time it takes you to swim 10 strokes and then divide by 10, just to validate the SR. ALEX
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2010
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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It occurs to me to wonder if everybody is taking about the same SR. Some may be counting stroke cycles (two hand hits) and others half cycles. (one hand hit).
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  #16  
Old 12-10-2010
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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westyswoods
Default Stroke Cycle vs Stroke Rate

Richardsk,

You make a very valid point of SC vs SR. There has been considerable discussion of this is the past with some confusion be obvious.

This is one of the points Terry can address in his new book by putting a glossary in with general definitions and also old vs new terminology.

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2010
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsaaditya View Post
... The joy of the glide, as I discovered initially, was tremendous.
Yes, the joy of the glide is an undiscribable experience. I don't know what it is, but it is quite amazing.
I don't like the strong decelaration/acceleration in slow strokes though. So I try to keep the gliding experience at faster paces, and actually it works well even at TT speeds faster than 1.0


Quote:
Originally Posted by KatieK View Post
You guys are in the exact same boat as every other swimmer: faster than some, slower than others. No matter how fast you get, that won't change. You're only competing with yourselves. ...
I like it, that's a good (and quite wise) way of putting it.
Although - sometimes I take another swimmer who is already gone for a few meters and try to catch up to that swimmer, or pass him/her before hitting the other wall. It usually gives me an extra 'kick' for my stroke and I try to do that with the thought of maintaining a looong stroke. So a little competition might be helpfull at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-SG View Post
Drone,

This seems totally odd. How can you possibly swim at a SR=2.75?
Send us a Video....
I'd really like to see that, too. I have no clue how one could 'swim' at such a slow pace, and frankly speaking I don't believe it. Even with a pushoff and glide of 10 secs in each lap it still would be a stroke rate of around 2.0, which I find extremely slow, but just swimmable. 2.75 ???

drone, how long do you need for the turn and the push off/initial glide in each lap?

BTW I was thinking of counting a stroke for each arm entry. Otherwise we talk about an SPL of 28 here in a 25m pool, at a pace of 1.3-something. That would be a rather normal, relaxed stroke rate and a relatively high SPL.
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2010
quad09 quad09 is offline
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Default Katie My Girl!!!

Hats off to Katie for that wonderful spreadsheet!! Bravo!!! You can share my lane any day!!!

PS/ the post is good too!
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  #19  
Old 12-10-2010
seungew seungew is offline
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seungew
Default ... changing gears

Howdy TI'ers,

I just got the TI book (Revised & Updated v)... and I just finished Chapter 4 but I remember reading something Terry said that may help here about how to keep the same pace and have more power:

F= Mass X Acceleration

The mass is our body roll and momemtum. I like to use the visualization of the speed skater when I swim. I've watched them lots being in Calgary Canada, (home of the 1988 Olympics btw).

When you watch them at practice they take LONG strokes and they shift their body weight with momentum and rhythm on the ice.

It works pretty good for me when I am in the pool visualizing LONG reaching and even wiggling my fingers like I am reaching for something. With this I am able to get a good long body roll and am in position over my arm and am able to use more of my back & core muscles to propel me forward.

works for me ~~ :)
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  #20  
Old 12-10-2010
KatieK KatieK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quad09 View Post
Hats off to Katie for that wonderful spreadsheet!! Bravo!!! You can share my lane any day!!!

PS/ the post is good too!
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you liked the spreadsheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-SG View Post
Drone,

This seems totally odd. How can you possibly swim at a SR=2.75?
Send us a Video....

SR=2.0 is already way too slow because your body comes to a stop and then you have to re-accelerate again. In addition, if you swim at SR=2.75, it means that you breathe every 5.5sec (assuming one side breathing) which would take most people out of breath quickly I would think.

In my humble view, assuming you indeed take SPL=14 at SR=2.75, you should really try to speed up to SR=1.7-2.0 at least in the beginning. By doing that you may consume more energy but you will breathe more frequently so extra oxygen can help. And by the way, that is still too slow. Your next target should be SR=1.5 (what people in the Forum seem to think is the slowest "swimmable" rate).

Ask someone to time how much time it takes you to swim 10 strokes and then divide by 10, just to validate the SR. ALEX
I tried swimming with the tempo trainer set to 3.0 this morning. It would take some practice to synchronize to those beeps because they're so far apart. It felt like this: beep - waiting for a beep - I know there's going to be another beep - I forget what I'm doing here - beep. But, I didn't have any trouble swimming so slowly, and I did not feel a loss of momentum between strokes. I didn't feel oxygen-deprived either. (BTW, I *do* feel a little oxygen-deprived if I breathe every 3 strokes for a long distance at a normal pace. The difference in this case was that it took *so* little exertion to swim that slowly that my body really didn't need more oxygen than I was getting)

My SPL range should be 16-19 for my height, and I could hit 12 at an SR of 3.0. I am sure it did not look pretty--people probably thought I had arthritis.

I dialed it down to 2.6 after that, which was easier to hit, but still very slow.

On a normal day, I usually do at least 100 yds at a very slow pace to see how low I can get my SPL. I don't normally use the TT for that, but I tried 2.0 today, and that felt like the pace I normally hit. I enjoy those repeats, but I think of them more as drills than as swimming.

Another thing I do at a really slow pace is the single over-switch drill with fingertip drag. I do 2 strokes (one stroke cycle) and finish with a glide in the skate position for a moment before breathing. I am taking over 6 seconds for the stroke cycle on those--probably closer to 7. I feel a definite loss of momentum, and I get oxygen deprivation. (In this case, I think the oxygen deprivation comes from tensing up during the skate portion and overcoming the loss of momentum when I start a new stroke cycle.) That said, I find them to be good practice for streamlining and balance. My SPL usually goes down by 1 after I practice a few lengths of those.
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