Flip turns...

[dobarton]

Ok, so, I've been enjoying freestyle for some time now since a knee surgery seriously curtailed my running, probably permanently. I'm very comfortable swimming an hour or more in a 25 m pool. However, I've stuck with open turns this whole time because I "get" them. Plus, the extra breath doesn't hurt.
I've decided that I need to learn flip turns just to learn them and stay challenged. So this morning's session was tumble after tumble after tumble. Good thing I had the pool to myself. It must have looked humorous. My problem from my limited perspective, appears to be that I don't turn far enough. If I use my arms to skull just a bit, then I get far enough around to push off level with the bottom of the pool. If I try to just use my core to turn me, I tend to not get far enough around. One time, I even ended up head down and legs up just past parallel to the wall!! Glad no one was watching.
Anyone have any idea what portion of this I'm missing? Now that I've had this practice, I get to go back to Easy Freestyle to evaluate, but I thought I'd throw it out there and see if there are any thoughts.
Thanks,
Doug

[RobM77]

Great question; I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as I want to learn how to flip turn. I'm going on holiday soon and will have a pool all to myself for a week, so would love to use the opportunity to learn how to flip turn. They'd be very useful for triathlons with a pool swim.

My two questions are:

1) Can anyone recommend a guide that's worked for them. I've found a few good ones online.

2) Is it safe or permitted to do them in the shallow end of a pool (0.5m in one of the pools I swim in here at home), or are they deep end only?

[Lawrence]

I don't do them but Phelps does and, interestingly, does them very slowly in practice, as if he's monitoring every detail during the turn. Perhaps worth aiming for.

[borate]

Originally Posted by RobM77

My two questions are:

1) Can anyone recommend a guide that's worked for them. I've found a few good ones online.

2) Is it safe or permitted to do them in the shallow end of a pool (0.5m in one of the pools I swim in here at home), or are they deep end only?

It usually is, but use your good judgment - especially during initial practice.

Here is Terry's demo of the TI-recommended method.

[sasquatch]

This may not work for everyone, but I think these have helped me improve somewhat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFQpLyihI5M

this is the link to the first step, you should find steps 2-5 on the right.

[CoachKris]

sasquatch I've been using that method for a while and waggles are doing the great job, specially when it comes to leaving your arms behind.

My tip for everyone start by doing tumbles away from the wall, you can use waggle as demonstrated on goswim video posted by sasquatch, then start doing it with speed (legs only, dolphin kick to accelerate tumbling), keep your chin down to your chest and exhale through your nose then start doing lengths on full stroke tumbling every 12 arm pulls at first then 6 arm pulls afterwards, remember breath to the side just before tumble leave both arms on the back dolphin kick to accelerate tumble ;) simple, if you feel comfortable with your tumbles away from the wall progress to tumbling on the wall

[collinsdc]

For what my amatuer input is worth.. I began learning flip-turns by standing on the black line on the pool bottom. A lifeguard taught me the turn.

Initially I started in water about chest deep, with my hands at my sides I would bend the knees & push upwards off the bottom. The aim was to rotate 360 degrees & then to land your feet back on the black line again.

As you begin to re-enter the water you need to tuck your chin to your chest to initate the roll. Your hands remain at your sides throughout & you must remember to bubble air from your nose or you will end up with a snout full of water- most unpleasant.

I practiced this for a couple of days & then progressed to standing an arms length from the wall & flipping to land both feet on the wall. Next came standing a few metres out from the wall & then swim to within an arms length of the wall & then turn.
After this I found it was just a matter of increasing the distance you swim to the wall & then some fine tuning-ie; timing your last breath before the turn, etc.

It takes a bit of practice & at first can be dis-orientating, dont close your eyes as you turn & dont get into the habit of using your hands to help you turn. Practice makes perfect so dont worry about the on-lookers, it is worth learning. After a while you will do it automatically without thinking & also become more confident turning in shallow water.

It took me about 3 weeks to learn properly, Im no swimmer & I now use the flip-turn all the time when drilling & in whole stroke. Im sorry I dont have the links but there are plenty videos on You Tube etc, I however found it relatively easy to get used to the mechanics of the turn by beginning with the black line on the bottom of the pool.

Denis.