Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Outside the Box: Open Water Swimming
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default Aiming for a longer swim

I'm aiming .. planning .. dreaming of doing a 3-4km sea channel swim in about 9 months. I do pool sessions of about 3km total so now I've started to swim 1000m - 1500m intervals in these (swam my first 1km in the lake in June last year).

I plan on continuing like this, improving my 1500's, generally and extending them by developing familiarity with "plodding along" and hopefully developing stamina (as well as better technique). I'm thinking that even with more difficult conditions the salt water will be a big help so maybe at least will cancel them out and hopefully a bit more.

Any advice would be welcome.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-19-2014
CoachHeikoStribl CoachHeikoStribl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10
CoachHeikoStribl
Default

Hi Talvi,
what a great goal you set yourself. Why do you want to wait 9 months (weather?)... Distance wise if you can already do a 3 km in a Pool....you will definitely be able to do it in open water. (I find the pool distances more difficult....
Terry has written many helpful blogs regarding open water and "going the distance".
Visit swim for life, The Blog of Terry Laughlin.
Where do you plan to do your open water swim?
Heiko
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-20-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

Hei Heiko, Thanks.

It's only my session distance that adds up to <3km. It's not continuous. I've not done a continuous swim of much more than 1600m (either in the pool or OW). Up until a few weeks ago I'd only done a handful of these "longer" distances.

I'd like to do the Bosphorous swim, assuming I can get onto it, so that sets the 9 month timing. It's an excuse for a holiday (assuming the world doesn't go to hell in a handbag before then) more than really a swimming goal, and hopefully I wont drown! The distance is over 6km but there's a following current .... and it's salt water so hopefully 9 months is enough for me

Having said that the idea of the swim has changed my approach to my pool sessions. I've been on a plateau for a year now so a change away from chasing better spl's via short distance work feels good. Oddly I am finding that practising technique in some ways becomes easier when floppy-tired i.e after a km or so for me. The water seems to become more "familiar" somehow and the focal points less fixated, rigid and myopic.

p.s
Have you met Werner (WFEGb), here or in reality? He and I were talking about these things on this forum so I know he would like to set up a weekend with a European TI coach. He's in Hamburg so ... but sadly he hasn't enabled PM's here ...

UPDATE
Did my first continuous 2km in the pool today, with some 100m "sprints" afterwards. I am suspecting now that distance is more of a psychological barrier than a real one, but at the same time I have to realize that swimming is no longer a noble quest for the holy grail but also a workout, even if not a frenetic and vein popping one!
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov

Last edited by Talvi : 09-20-2014 at 05:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-28-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default TI for distance

I am surprised. TI's strong suit is distance swimming, this is a TI forum, and yet, apart from Heiko's suggestion to look elsewhere, my post has received no advice at all Seems odd, and of course sad, for me anyway.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-28-2014
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,104
WFEGb
Default

Hello Talvi,

sure not the right one for an answer because for now a pure lap swimmer. But you're suprised is OK, sad not! So as ever for FWIW:

As Heiko wrote, distance seems not being a problem for you. There's anywhere a thread lead by Terry "Faster 1500" or similar. If you just want to swim you could swim the Bospherus at once.

Without any knowledge just by feeling I'd say you'd become even more self secure if you know about your "recovery-forever-stroke". I found mine just some weeks ago (no better times off plateau but a new great feeling to recover while swimming on...) and think I'm not able to start a stronger pace again (you are with your fast 100ms after the long distance swim) but to know I can swim on and recover is absolutly great. (Thaught this only exists for others and not for me. Was an apriciated suprise. It's very slow (2m15s and more for 100m) but now I know there's a new open end.)

Another thing I think might become very disturbing when swimming longer distance in open water: Tiny leakage in goggles, trunks that doesn't fit perfectly over a longer time, becoming thursty after an hour swimming and how to deal with it. What I mean, many minor tiny things which are corrected unconscious when swimming 100-200m might become upsetting.

Still sad? Best regards,
Werner
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-29-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

No my friend, now I'm not sad anymore, thanks to you and your reply. It is very much appreciated. Never hesitate mate, if you do, your posts are always worth a great deal, and in many ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
As Heiko wrote, distance seems not being a problem for you. There's anywhere a thread lead by Terry "Faster 1500" or similar. If you just want to swim you could swim the Bospherus at once.
I would have been happy to read only that! I wasn't sure if Heiko had understood. It's only very recently that I've discovered I can swim 2km, but 3km, and with no walls .... ? I feel I could do it now, but it's good to get support from a swimmer like me

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Without any knowledge just by feeling I'd say you'd become even more self secure if you know about your "recovery-forever-stroke". I found mine just some weeks ago (no better times off plateau but a new great feeling to recover while swimming on...) and think I'm not able to start a stronger pace again (you are with your fast 100ms after the long distance swim) but to know I can swim on and recover is absolutly great. (Thaught this only exists for others and not for me. Was an apriciated suprise. It's very slow (2m15s and more for 100m) but now I know there's a new open end.)
After today I think I was really starting to get this too today, if I understand you. For me it started by changing my breathing head turn to about a 2:30 clock position. That gets breath way earlier and gives my recovery some space as well as getting my head down again earlier. Also the diagonal kick really helped straighten me out today. Like you (?) I found that when things got tougher/falling apart I could focus on the head turn, diagonal kick, and patient cat 'n mouse hands to get back to feeling relaxed. It also started to feel like a rhythm.

I intended to drop you a PM about a "play" drill I was doing at the end of the session. It emerged from copying that OneWithTheWater video where the guy floats on his front and turns to breathe. It wasn't as good for me as I thought it would be. I found myself adding a sort of scull. That turned into a very VERY lazy stroke in which I kicked and speared, rolling, holding my hand at my hip until gravity began to turn me back down, then recovering, holding patient lead hand and then doing the cat 'n mouse timing to roll back to the other side and repeat ... FWIW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Another thing I think might become very disturbing when swimming longer distance in open water: Tiny leakage in goggles, trunks that doesn't fit perfectly over a longer time, becoming thursty after an hour swimming and how to deal with it. What I mean, many minor tiny things which are corrected unconscious when swimming 100-200m might become upsetting.
REALLY good points! I've found the right pair of goggles for me now. Leakage a thing of the past, but maybe salt water will affect that? Thirsty trunks sounds worrying, and I'm worried about the obligatory cap as the standard latex size gives me a headache. I swam with my adapted neoprene one today. Much better but I think large rather than medium would be even better.

Thanks again mate.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-29-2014
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,104
WFEGb
Default

Hello Talvi,

LOL! My English. Thaught a comma would seperate enough...

Best regards,
Werner
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-01-2014
CoachHeikoStribl CoachHeikoStribl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10
CoachHeikoStribl
Smile

Hi Talvi,

Yes, I have met, swam, and laughed with Werner. He is a excellent swimmer, and has some nice pools out there in Hamburg. (Although he never found my swim trunks I forgot in the changing rooms ).

Talvi, perhaps it would be good to join a open water camp swim during next summer. This will give you even more confidence and will help ensure you have the correct equipment for the Bosperus swim. Getting tickets might be tricky, but via Matt Hudson you might get a better chance of securing a place.

If your technique allows you to swim such distances in a pool, then its just a matter of staying focussed and concentrated on maintaining your stroke over a long distance. So the more often you swim outdoors, or longer distance you will gradually notice that your ability to remain focussed (and maintain the same stroke) increases.

Well....seeing that you are in Finland.....doubt you will be doing a lot of outdoor swiming during these days.
So practise makes perfect.....

Regards,
Heiko
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-01-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default Water, water everywhere but not a ...

Water, water everywhere but not a place to swim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachHeikoStribl View Post
... it would be good to join a open water camp swim during next summer ... Getting tickets might be tricky, but via Matt Hudson you might get a better chance of securing a place. ...
Werner too mentioned Mat. I don't know where he is but other countries are allowed 200 entries each so may be better to try from Finland. But it's starting to sound like an elitist event, not for the common Joe like me. Maybe China!

That camp sounds just like Werner's dream but if he can't figure one out I'm sure I won't do better.

@Werner, lost you with this. Can you explain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
... My English. Thaught a comma would seperate enough...
and I meant to ask obout your recovery stroke. Tell more?
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-01-2014
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,104
WFEGb
Default

Hello Heiko,

Quote:
Yes, I have met, swam, and laughed with Werner. He is a excellent swimmer, and ...
Now we really have to laugh togehter. Thanks, (I became red faced) but stay honest. Otherwise the word "truth" or the word "excellent" or both need redefiniton.


@ Talvi,

Quote:
..lost you with this. Can you explain?..
Will try it. My LOL was referring your "thursty trunks"...

TT-times: For me swimming 100m with TT set to 1.5s with 16SPL is far more relaxed and far less exhausting than swimming 100m with TT set to 1.2s with 21SPL or even, as you may prefer, with TT set to 1.0s with 26SPL.

But at least you're right I have to work on lower TT-Settings.

Mat lives in Antalya, Turkey (very, very nice town!) and coaches there. Sometimes in Poland and next year some other mediteran places. You should contact him. He's always very kind and helpful. Sure he has Bospherus in mind for next year. But China, hmm let conserve it...

(Great, the dream is not dreamed out yet. If Heiko and/or Mat and/or Tracey will jump in, Bad Saarow near Berlin might become an option too...)

Best regards,
Werner

PS: Will add your advice to the acronyms...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.