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  #11  
Old 07-21-2016
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
When swimming full stroke, the upper shoulder is always moving forward with respect to the lower shoulder until the recovery, when upper and lower are switched, and the process starts all over again. People like to talk about the virtue of a quick recovery, and the explanation that is offered is usually that, by getting your recovering arm quickly up front you help maintain balance. The observations I just made seem consistent with that. I expect that the hip motion is similar. This motion can be observed on dry land if you stand next to a wall and reach for the ceiling with your right finger tips. As you do so, the left foot will leave the ground because you are stretching, not only with your shoulders, but also with your hips. These motions with the hips and shoulders seem to be critical to maintaining forward balance. When you skate on your side, as in the video posted by ZT, the balance is static, but when swimming it needs to be dynamic. Clearly, if you have your weight shifted forward most of the time, some brief instances when this is not the case will not cause your legs to drop, as long as the instances are brief. Hence the virtue of a quick recovery.
Thank you. I finally see and get what you are saying.

Just came from the pool. CoachStuart had talked about pressing down on the collarbone in another thread, a while ago. I believe I applied and imbibed it. Then I was told that my head was too low in the water. Tried to fix that by looking ahead and I guess somewhat raising my head. I think that's how the tilting crept in.

Today, I captured that "feeling" again: less drag + more pull return. I regressed a few times-- as could be expected-- and was able to chronicle the difference.
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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When I press my buoy I always feel like a pinquin.
Maybe tis mental image works for you too.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...er-Pinguin.jpg
(he only raises his head too much)
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2016
Danny Danny is offline
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This morning while swimming, I tried Coach Stuart's suggestion of leaning on the collar bone. Yes, it is true that when I do this the hips rise, but there is another important piece of the puzzle for me. Just because the hips rise, doesn't mean that the feet rise with them. If you want the feet to rise with the hips, you have to use your butt muscles to push your hips downwards towards the pool bottom. The goal is to avoid any bending at the hips and keep a straight line. In essence, the butt muscles are doing the work of holding your legs up when you lean on your collar bone.

So yes, lean on your collar bone, but don't forget to use those butt muscles to hold up your legs!
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2016
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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Originally Posted by Danny View Post
If you want the feet to rise with the hips, you have to use your butt muscles to push your hips downwards towards the pool bottom. The goal is to avoid any bending at the hips and keep a straight line. !
I have heard about squeezing the glutes. Isn't really integral to a decent 2BK? When you kick then hold through the glide phase?

But, how could the hips go down while the feet go up?
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The light of the body is the eye.
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Last edited by lloyddinma : 07-22-2016 at 05:26 PM. Reason: .
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  #15  
Old 07-22-2016
truwani truwani is offline
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This gets a bit complicated: push on buoy is already highly complicated but now we should also push hips down?? Not sure how this works cause I already need butmuscles to perform the hipdrive, not?


Tried the deeper spear: indeed this gives rise to a more horizontal body position, nice! Did not realise this: thought only a low head was related to this. I will focus on this. Currently breathing seems a bit more complicated this way but probably I still need to adapt


Also tried the drill with board on your chest: a bit strange cause as soon as you swim you loose the board. Anyhow I will try again
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2016
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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[quote=truwani;59987


Also tried the drill with board on your chest: a bit strange cause as soon as you swim you loose the board. Anyhow I will try again[/QUOTE]

Going by the linked Youtube video with ZT's, I believe the board is actually supposed to slip away. I think the idea is to get acclimated with the feeling of chest pressure on the board.
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  #17  
Old 07-22-2016
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyddinma View Post
I have heard about squeezing the glutes. Isn't really integral to a decent 2BK? When you kick then hold through the glide phase?

But, how could the hips go down while the feet go up?
If you don't use your glutes to keep straight, you are like a wet noodle, and the feet will drop. The hips are only going down with respect to the feet, because the feet are rising. What's really happening is that you're using your glutes to hold your feet up and keep them from sinking.
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2016
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
If you don't use your glutes to keep straight, you are like a wet noodle, and the feet will drop. The hips are only going down with respect to the feet, because the feet are rising. What's really happening is that you're using your glutes to hold your feet up and keep them from sinking.
Sorry, typo. I meant isn't squeezing the glutes part of a decent 2bk? Usually after you flick, the glutes are tightened right through the glide pahse? Am I wrong here?
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2016
daveblt daveblt is offline
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For people who naturally balance well this may not apply too much but like i mentioned in a previous thread this info from this video can help people who don't balance well and it helped me a lot to keep my legs from sinking .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2n_AceCr-c

Dave
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
For people who naturally balance well this may not apply too much but like i mentioned in a previous thread this info from this video can help people who don't balance well and it helped me a lot to keep my legs from sinking .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2n_AceCr-c

Dave
There is one bit that I would disagree on. The instructor here correctly states that the legs have to be lifted from the hips to take the lower limbs out of the large cross sectional profile and into the slipstream "shadow" of the trunk axis. However, he states that to do this one has to rotate the pelvis forward (he demonstrate this by arching his back). One can lift the legs up without this forward rotation of the pelvis -- when the pelvis is neutral, the gluteal muscles and hamstrings have to contract more than in the tilted pelvic position, but this still result in the same effect of lifting the legs into the slipstream "shadow" of the trunk. This is merely two different ways of getting the legs aligned with the horizontal dimension, so I don't think there is any controversy here.

However Richard Quick in his video on trunk alignment is very specific about not tilting the pelvis forward and about maintaining pelvic neutrality in the interest of achieving "tallness" of body line by increasing tone of abdominal muscles (decreasing the hollowness of the lower back space when lying on the back).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V5PYspkknE

He devotes a lot of attention to this subtle point 2:00 to about 4:00. I'm not the expert here, but it seems to make a lot of sense to do this; and you can still lift the legs out of the drag-producing position.
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