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  #31  
Old 02-14-2015
novaswimmer novaswimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by efdoucette View Post
Novaswimmer, I think it's all about breathing. I'm certainly not gifted in the strength department. I do swim my longest right at the start where I have the most energy. The one thing I have done a while back is to not stop. Meaning I don't stop at the wall, I push off and float on my back if I need to until I get it together to swim more freestyle. So I will swim for 50 minutes stopping only for water. I do spend lots of time on my back but I think this "keep going" and not stopping has helped me some.
Thanks. I'm close to 60 and started working on freestyle in earnest since Feb 2014. I try to swim 2 to 3 times a week, but it's sporadic with schedules, etc (I'm usually stressed just trying to get to the pool (work schedules / traffic / 'will I even get a lane? / working around high school team practices)

I usually revert to breast stroke when I get tired, so often go 1 lap breast, 1 lap free. My frog kick is a lot more productive than my scissors kick, so I usually opt for 2 beat kick during free style.
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  #32  
Old 02-14-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Hi Novaswimmer,

+1 for the breathing. I also couldn't do more than 100m about two years ago. The trick I found is to relax (easier said than done but still) - forget about speed and distance altogether really, just go for ease in the water, roll to air, get a floating feeling. Once breathing is possible everything else comes. Think of it this way: you want to swim, you enjoy swimming right, so why have a focus on getting to the end of it faster, on reaching the end? So, if the idea is to swim, then the longer you do it the better. Stop having a goal of reaching the end of the pool. The wall should be an irritation more than a relief.


Junkman

Sounds like you started from a higher baseline in some ways not in others. I've been on "three days". I have found that I now have limits whereas five years ago I thought that "just doing it" would do it. Joint pain has two main aspects: ligament, and cartilage/bone. Ligaments become weaker/looser with age. The envelope of aging is defined genetically. Reducing the envelope, by arguing with an oncoming bus, is easy, but it can't be enlarged. Cartilage and bone begin to show the signs of wear depending on the amount they're used and genetics etc. Simple bottom line: exercise stimulates blood circulation (good), it can also cause bad stress (not good). In any case not a panacea or alchemist's stone. And yes, it's complex not simple. Healing from an acute injury is not the same as changing the elasticity of an age-degenerated ligament. Direct comparuisons on an age scale are disturbingly accurate but still subject to significant variation. The patterns though remain identical.

I don't have any problems with my weight. Never have had.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #33  
Old 02-14-2015
junkman junkman is offline
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I don't do one type of exercise as preparation for another. All are for enjoyment and to keep me mobile. Bike riding is likely to end first because an error can be the most damaging. Swimming is expected to last long because technique matters.

One person when I was doing only drills said "you need to quit messing around and swim. Ive pointed him to TI but he says he looks at too much film. He continues to flail. FWIW, he's a football coach and apparently doesn't consider new information.
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  #34  
Old 02-15-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkman View Post
I don't do one type of exercise as preparation for another. All are for enjoyment and to keep me mobile. Bike riding is likely to end first because an error can be the most damaging. Swimming is expected to last long because technique matters.

One person when I was doing only drills said "you need to quit messing around and swim. Ive pointed him to TI but he says he looks at too much film. He continues to flail. FWIW, he's a football coach and apparently doesn't consider new information.
@junkman, while biking on an isolated highway, training for triathlon on March 13, 2014, a lady turned her oncoming minivan across my path and I slammed into her side at 30k/h, knocking me out and causing an avulsion fracture on the greater trochanter of my femur. I walked with a cane for 6 weeks, and was not able to compete for the whole 2014 season, so never got to do a tri that year. But it likely was a saving grace, because long before I was able to walk again, I could spend a lot of time in the pool, and develop my balance, without the artificial help of a strong kick. Because of that, I'm likely in a much better position swimming-wise this year than I would otherwise have been, which as it turns out is actually a scary thought lol.
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  #35  
Old 02-15-2015
daveblt daveblt is offline
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I believe swimming technique is much more important than strength . Just because you have more strength does not necessarily mean you will be able to swim better . Yes, having more strength may be able to help to a certain point but then again there's only a certain amount strength can you apply to the water. I"m 5'9" and 170 pounds and workout with weights a couple times a week and fairly strong but have been passed like I'm standing still in the water by many people less than half my size . Technique matters a lot .

Dave
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  #36  
Old 02-15-2015
junkman junkman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
@junkman, while biking on an isolated highway, a lady turned her oncoming minivan across my path and I slammed into her side at 30k/h, knocking me out and causing an avulsion fracture on the greater trochanter of my femur.
A friend of mine was riding downhill on a rough road, lost control went over the handle bars and damaged his spine. He is approaching 3 (perhaps 4) years and is still on a walker but recently bought a trike. His situation is one of the reasons I consider doing something different.
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  #37  
Old 02-16-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkman View Post
A friend of mine was riding downhill on a rough road, lost control went over the handle bars and damaged his spine. He is approaching 3 (perhaps 4) years and is still on a walker but recently bought a trike. His situation is one of the reasons I consider doing something different.
The reason I'm swimming is that in 2012 I resolved to learn enough to compete in Triathlon. So, still committed to that ideal, I'm stuck with keeping on learning to bike lol. But since the accident I am super-paranoid. I avoid traffic if at all possible, and I am super heads-up. I train on deserted highways at off peak hours, and I don't go down hills super fast. But I once went down a hill at 68k/h after the accident and just about soiled myself. I set up my helmet with a flashing headlamp and backlight, and have a super bright head light on my bike, and have a super bright tail light, and plan to ride always with very garish clothing while training. I won't have all this visibility equipment while racing, but I hope the race organisers have that all covered.

But you're right, an accident like that really changes your outlook.

Last edited by sclim : 02-16-2015 at 03:30 PM.
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  #38  
Old 02-16-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
I believe swimming technique is much more important than strength . Just because you have more strength does not necessarily mean you will be able to swim better . Yes, having more strength may be able to help to a certain point but then again there's only a certain amount strength can you apply to the water. I"m 5'9" and 170 pounds and workout with weights a couple times a week and fairly strong but have been passed like I'm standing still in the water by many people less than half my size . Technique matters a lot .

Dave
I don't think anyone would disagree with you here. However, I believe the main debate here is whether for the people in the 1:20-1:30/100m range (who have shown that their balance and technique is better than adequate, which of course rules me out) if specific strength training would then be a benefit in increasing speed or endurance. I think that with the stipulation of adequate technique, most people would think that strength would help here.
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  #39  
Old 02-16-2015
danm danm is offline
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I never expected so many answers, but I think this shows that many others are thinking about this matter. Thank you all for chiming in.

I know I wasn't very specific in what I meant about strength, but that's probably because I wasn't sure how to express my thoughts. Coach David Shen did that for me - I certainly wasn't thinking about the bulk muscles a bodybuilder has, I don't believe those would trully help swimmers, but as coach David said, strength as the "ability to generate tension" is what I meant. I think that will help with swimming as well as with basic strength exercises like pull-ups, etc.

Also, I don't think the debate is about what's most important, technique or strength. I think that if you have none, technique should come first, but after you've reached a certain level strength must be added if you want to progress. Or maybe even sooner, as I do believe there are parts of the techical requirements that can't be accomplished without a certain body strength. Coach David did mention some of those.

Coach Suzzane - interestingly enough I'm at about the same level in terms of times. I also can't do a single pull without needing hospitalization afterwards;) I'm planning to start a strength training programme though so I guess I'll be reporting back in a couple of months...
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  #40  
Old 02-16-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danm View Post
strength as the "ability to generate tension" is what I meant. I think that will help with swimming as well as with basic strength exercises like pull-ups, etc.
I just wanted to post something alike. Yes, one needs tonus to swim properly.
Personally, I need to tense abdominal muscles and gluteus.Without it, no
streamline. If no strenght, vertical forearm is not attached to the body.
Even at recovery, leding arm goes forward to connect hand, that holds
the water, with the rest of the body.
Contrary is true also. I could do 100 push-ups, but on the pool I see guys,
that are at least 3 times stronger. In the water, they merely float. Or sink. Oh, yes.
I have a point. Without a strenght, swimming would not be a fun.
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