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  #21  
Old 12-22-2014
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
Hahaha -- one of the first things that I thought about after recently understanding the 15 cm kick amplitude limit prescription by Coach Shinji was how I could try to achieve this performance, and the tools by which I might be assisted. A limiting cord or band around the ankles was what I initially thought of, and I wondered if one had already been devised by some coach somewhere and was already available. I was thinking of doing it myself out of surgical rubber tubing. Now I'll just wait a bit!
Worth the wait I think. I'll try not to drag my feet too much on this project.
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  #22  
Old 12-22-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
For folks battling to get under 2:00 pace, the perfect 2bk to emulate is one that will lower drag resistance, since at that pace it is presumably what is holding you back the most. The biggest traps are a kicking motion which doesn't bring your bum to the surface, and opening the legs too wide and thus creating resistance.

As for knee bent, well a few things could be said. There's nothing intrinsically wrong in inducing some knee bent in the kicking, as long as the leg reaches full extension at some point (generally during the upbeat). Knee bent really becomes problematic when the leg keep this bent shape, with knees staying deep. So ideally, the leg should come back to the surface, and reach extension whilst moving back up to the surface. If this is achieved, then bending the knee a bit on the downbeat in order to improve angle of attack (ankle relative to the water surface) isn't a bad thing.

Kicking only 15cm wide is very difficult to achieve, and will not presumably happen without doing a lot of video feedback, or having incredible proprioception. As Andy mentioned, best is to aim for as little as possible, and get the best possible. ....
Thanks Charles', for such a comprehensive and concise answer!

Legs too wide has been a fault of mine commented on by coaches here, but I can't get sufficiently aware of it or how/why it keeps creeping back into my kicking.

Kicking to get your bum to the surface conjures up a TRULY unforgettable image :D as well as sounding like a great focus for the kick, so thanks for that!

I'd noticed my kicking leg straightening sometimes, but not maintained a focus on that. It had seemed like part of "hide-the-foot" drill and therefore out of date!!! D'oh! I'll make the up beat straigtening more of a focus. I've been focusing on the extension at the end of the kick. Probably the same thing (?) but still a diferent perspective on it.

Kicking to "slap" the water with the top of the foot dovetails neatly with Shinji's poolside drills too (though the pool edges are way too high here to try that)

Thanks again Charles, nice Christmas present :)

p.s
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Worth the wait I think. I'll try not to drag my feet too much on this project.
Pun intended? :D I hope you'll post back on this idea.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov

Last edited by Talvi : 12-22-2014 at 02:42 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-23-2014
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Aww, that's my lake! Where I'm learning open water swimming. Murky green low visibility, but nothing too weird in the water. Thx for the link! We got to race with their timing equipment that weekend. It felt very official, even though still getting clobbered by 14 yr old kids! Nationals week at Lake Castaic!


Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Great lesson in holding stroke integrity at the end of the ladies 10K. The two girls in front are looking a bit srappy at the end of 9.5K and the other girl just get's her head down, keeps the stroke longer and wins the event, great swimming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcI5YsRU1Uw
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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This is an old thread now, but what you wrote fits perfectly with what's visible in my new video and of course now makes heaps more sense!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
... There's nothing intrinsically wrong in inducing some knee bent in the kicking, as long as the leg reaches full extension at some point (generally during the upbeat). Knee bent really becomes problematic when the leg keep this bent shape, with knees staying deep. So ideally, the leg should come back to the surface, and reach extension whilst moving back up to the surface. If this is achieved, then bending the knee a bit on the downbeat in order to improve angle of attack (ankle relative to the water surface) isn't a bad thing ...
But my kick is often near horizontal! And I couldn't really be described as "bending the knee a bit". However I do feel that angle of attack thing so what you wrote makes the bits fall into place better.

I'm thinking that aiming for full extension of the leg as the body becomes flat is optimal. And maybe a feeling of bringing the leg up to the surface (glutes) as it kicks (quads) is the way to go?
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2015
danm danm is offline
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here's the perfect 2BK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbelgVrdsSk
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  #26  
Old 01-26-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Originally Posted by danm View Post
Indeed. On Saturday I emailed that clip to the coach I talked about on the other thread! It is very beautiful.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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