Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-10-2014
danm danm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 76
danm
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post
From what I have read body rotation is important to help prevent shoulder pain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWjqENOdj4
As I only breathe to the right I am only getting that rotation for my right arm while my left arm suffers.
Is my thinking correct?
..
Do I need to force myself to start bilateral breathing or just try and rotate a bit more to my weak side?
First, that video has no footage from above water so we can't see how you recover your arm, if it goes behind your back or not. Seeing that you actually swim quite well I suppose you know what that means, but just in case, here's a video that explains it quite well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WsfHjyacxY

I don't think bilateral breathing is going to help if you don't sort out the rotation on the non breathing side.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-10-2014
Danny Danny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,442
Danny
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
Very true!

Still the information you can get (with or without a mirror) from finding what movement causes pain can be helpful I find, especially in finding what can help heal it on land, as opposed to avoiding it in the water.

I believe it's the case that shoulder injuries in swimming mostly come from recovery style.
In fact I think its more difficult to execute a painfree shoulder recovery in a standing position than in the water so if you can do it in front of a mirror you can probably do it in the water
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-10-2014
Streak Streak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 376
Streak
Default

I did 1300yd this morning as 13x100yds. With the exception of maybe a slight hint of pain during some backstroke which I only do for 100yds, the rest of the session was totally pain free. Today I did not clock watch too much and focused more on feeling the catch and allowing my arm to fall towards the bottom fingers pointed downwards. I was a nice relaxed session which I will continue until my shoulder heals up. I was about 5 seconds off my normal time for 100 yards (1:50 instead of 1:45).

I am wondering if the pain I am experiencing could be as a result of the swimming but not experienced while I am swimming if that's at all possible.

Here is an older video shot from above water. I have improved since then but I think it shows that I don't put my recovery arm behind my back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRNMi6O3bY
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-10-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
..Learning to spear with the elbow already pointing towards the sky takes some practice as the body learns the position but once you have it down everything becomes easier and a lot of shoulder pain issues go away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6RTP-Sj5TI
I didn't have time (wtf!? 26 seconds!?!) to watch the video before my session today. The result was an example of how many ways it is possible to misinterpret something!

I tried to do what I thought you'd suggested. Result was not good. And caused some some pain D I was trying to get my elbow REALLY high on the catch!!! Crazy stuff :D The video made it all clear, and it's actually really easy to do after all that.

Just make sure your palm is flat to the bottom of the pool when you spear. My palm has been in the plane of my torso so at quite an angle at the start of the catch. Then as you rotate just keep it from angling towards the sides as you catch/pull and ... bingo! :)
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-10-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post
... Here is an older video shot from above water. I have improved since then but I think it shows that I don't put my recovery arm behind my back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRNMi6O3bY
No coach, but I'm not sure. It's not clear but look at 0:21 for instance. You could try a windmill recovery for a few strokes (no elbow bend, or hardly any etc) and see if you can feel it. Try to make the angle a bit in front of your torso plane rather than i the torso plane.

Not sure if I agree with Danm though it'd be easier just to breathe to the opposite side. That'd force you to examine rotation and much more besides.

Maybe I'm just saying that because I find bilateral breathing hard either because my stroke rate is so slow or/and because I'm not fit enough though!
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-10-2014
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453
CoachSuzanne
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post
I did 1300yd this morning as 13x100yds. With the exception of maybe a slight hint of pain during some backstroke which I only do for 100yds, the rest of the session was totally pain free. Today I did not clock watch too much and focused more on feeling the catch and allowing my arm to fall towards the bottom fingers pointed downwards. I was a nice relaxed session which I will continue until my shoulder heals up. I was about 5 seconds off my normal time for 100 yards (1:50 instead of 1:45).

I am wondering if the pain I am experiencing could be as a result of the swimming but not experienced while I am swimming if that's at all possible.

Here is an older video shot from above water. I have improved since then but I think it shows that I don't put my recovery arm behind my back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRNMi6O3bY

actually in this video your arm is "behidn your back" on both sides, resulting in reaching forward with the hand/wrist first. That could lead to a flattish entry and more stress in the water as well .

pause the video with your arm in mid recovery. Visually draw a line between your two shoulders (one is underwater). Then look at the line made by your upper arm. It is behind the line made by your shoulders on both sides.

You can work on correcting this by slightly more rotation OR rotated fora longer portion of the stroke cycle or allowing the hand/elbow to swing wider during recovery.

It doesn't look bad, but it IS there...so if you learn what to look for you'll be a better evaluator of swim strokes.

Thanks for sharing.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-11-2014
Streak Streak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 376
Streak
Default

Yes I guess a picture doesn't lie! Thanks for the observation.
Something to work on in tomorrow's session.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-11-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

.. and try the breathing thing?
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-11-2014
Streak Streak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 376
Streak
Default

Yes thanks Talvi. Don't know how I missed our post above. In my Monday session I did a few 100's using bilateral breathing. As expected it felt very awkward and I could feel myself lifting my head breathing to my weak side.

I think before I concentrate on that too much I want to get the mechanics right.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-11-2014
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

I got almost totally rid of my shoulder pain in 1 hour.
Went to the gym for the first time this year since 8 months and did a lot of arms and shoulder eexercises. Heavy stuff, 3 x 8 reps where 8 was the max possible.
A bit painfull, but not too much.
And guess what? Shoulder pain now 90% gone!!.

The swimming this summer improved my general bycicle fitness also without dong much bicycling.
Last year 135 BPM to hold 200 Watts continuous, now only 127 BPM.

Sometimes I get the impression the body needs an extra push to trigger an healing process.I had this strange experience before.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 11-11-2014 at 09:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.