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  #1  
Old 01-06-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Talvi
Default Shoulder exercises and injury - FINA video

I'd really like to get advice on this video by FINA:
Prevention of Shoulder Injuries in Aquatics Sports

After introducing the shoulder joint itself, the narrator states: "the power for the shoulder comes from the upper back and abdominal muscles and not from the shoulder itself", and the video then demos a series of core exercises. However, any chain/powertrain is only as strong as its weakest link. It's no good trying to send the power of an F1 engine via a derailleur set to a tractor's wheels. So I was pleased to find a set of shoulder exercises after these!

The advice for the shoulder exercise sets is I suspect targeted at athletes though, and so I wonder what approach to follow myself. I'm lairy of a suck-it-and-see apprach as once I feel the damage it will be too late.

Do you have any experience of these shoulder specific exercises and if so what advive would you give for silver surfers?
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
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Last edited by Talvi : 01-17-2015 at 11:16 AM.
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2015
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
I'd really like to get advice on this video by FINA:
Prevention of Shoulder Injuries in Aquatics Sports

After introducing the shoulder joint itself, the narrator states: "the power for the shoulder comes from the upper back and abdominal muscles and not from the shoulder itself", and the video then demos a series of core exercises. However, any chain/powertrain is only as strong as its weakest link. It's no good trying and send the power of an F1 engine via a derailleur set to a tractor's wheels. So I was pleased to find a set of shoulder exercises after these!

The advice for the shoulder exercise sets is I suspect targeted at athletes though, and so I wonder what approach to follow myself. I'm lairy of a suck-it-and-see apprach as once I feel the damage it will be too late.

Do you have any experience of these shoulder specific exercises and if so what advive would you give for silver surfers?
some comments:

1. side plank - good - make sure you do not collapse the shoulder that is down. keep it supported. stop if you cannot maintain. good trunk stability is also crucial. if you sag in the body, stop.

2. quadraped - good - make sure you have good body position. if you sag your body, stop.

3. crunch - generally not advised these days. there are better ways to build the core. this encourages poor postural position and can stress the back.

scapular exercises: generally there has been a lot of change in philosophy regarding the scapula and encouraging proper scapula movement during arm movements. all of these encourage poor scapula action - it's not about strength, it's about proper stability and motor control of the scapula to be in the right place as the arm does what it needs to do.

4. hitch hiker - i would not squeeze the shoulder blades together. this encourages poor action. you can lift up to the point at which the shoulder blades start to come together.

5. scapular push up - again it encourages the lifting off of the scapula from the rib cage. proper scapular action results in the scapula gliding in a circular fashion around the curve of the rib cage. it should never lift off the rib cage.

6. isolated shrug - another one that if scapula is pulled toward the center back, causes the scapula to pull off the ribs. not good.

7. the swimmer - this isn't bad.

these videos shows more current thinking on the role of the scapula and preventing problems.

http://youtu.be/45CqDBsKEeE
http://youtu.be/Rk8k1D5Py1o
http://youtu.be/bLKcEXDhmyc
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2015
Grant Grant is offline
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Thanks David for the informative up to date reply.
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Thanks David for the informative up to date reply.
I second that Grant. Feeling glad I didn't try them (and guilty that you did!).

My plans for today had included setting to on them, but instead I may set to on FINA instead!!
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2015
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Now I've watched the Fitness Education Seminars (FES) videos they illustrate for me why a video is worth a thousand words. They are PowerPoint presentations + narration and I was lost after thirty seconds, as the narration is so fast and so technical it's hard especially for a layman to catch.

As the majority of the presentations seem to concern physiological theory, and as there are only a few slides showing the exercises, these are not covered throughly enough for me to confidently engage with. The FES exercise I did try had a negative response in my shoulder (painful click) so the jury is out for me on them.

Which opinion (FINA or FES) is correct I am in no position to judge. The FINA video's are clear but perhaps incorrect/dangerous/archaic. The FES ones are unclear but perhaps correct/safe/current.

I think I'm going to have to just suck it and see - doubt everything except my body's feedback, take it very slow, and feel out the best approaqh for me.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2015
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
Now I've watched the Fitness Education Seminars (FES) videos they illustrate for me why a video is worth a thousand words. They are PowerPoint presentations + narration and I was lost after thirty seconds, as the narration is so fast and so technical it's hard especially for a layman to catch.

As the majority of the presentations seem to concern physiological theory, and as there are only a few slides showing the exercises, these are not covered throughly enough for me to confidently engage with. The FES exercise I did try had a negative response in my shoulder (painful click) so the jury is out for me on them.

Which opinion (FINA or FES) is correct I am in no position to judge. The FINA video's are clear but perhaps incorrect/dangerous/archaic. The FES ones are unclear but perhaps correct/safe/current.

I think I'm going to have to just suck it and see - doubt everything except my body's feedback, take it very slow, and feel out the best approaqh for me.
i would not try the FES exercises without a competent professional guiding you. i posted those videos not for the exercises, but the theory behind why proper scapula movement is crucial and winging of the scapula is bad.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2015
Grant Grant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
I second that Grant. Feeling glad I didn't try them (and guilty that you did!).

My plans for today had included setting to on them, but instead I may set to on FINA instead!!
No problem Talvi. As it turned out I have only been doing the core exercises that were suggested and David had no problem with those. After about four days of doing them, just one set of each on each side, holding for 30 seconds I can already notice an improvement especially when doing the Fly. Up till now I had been doing only the standard plank which had my core in not bad shape but these on the side planks are adding something.
Thanks for the prod.
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May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2015
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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I've been really delinquent here lately in that I've visited the site a number of times but just read the current posts. Today I see a reply by Grant to an interesting thread. Just wanted to wish you a great New Year Grant ... and to all others as well. My swimming has taken a hit lately as real life got in the way .... must change that and get back to the water very soon.

Take care,
Mike
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2015
Grant Grant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from NS View Post
I've been really delinquent here lately in that I've visited the site a number of times but just read the current posts. Today I see a reply by Grant to an interesting thread. Just wanted to wish you a great New Year Grant ... and to all others as well. My swimming has taken a hit lately as real life got in the way .... must change that and get back to the water very soon.

Take care,
Mike
Hope you get back in the water soon. Thanks for the greetings.
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May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
Grant
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2015
Harling007 Harling007 is offline
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Default Your query

Hi Talvi, I didn't realise I could get private posts, and have just seen yours (5 minutes ago), but can't figure out how to reply - so sorry for the delay, and have figured out how post here. I will have to have another look and reply privately when I can.

Re. shoulder pain, that you mentioned, I found when I was doing longer swims preparing for Windermere (10 miles - 6 hours 20 minutes - it was hard - though no shoulder pain interestingly) that my right collar bone/shoulder area (breathing side mainly) got quite painful, especially when I swam three and four hour sessions without a break in the fortnight before it - silly idea I know). I found spearing deeper and working on bilateral have really helped. I am not very flexible and get stick shoulder anyway, swimming loosens me up a lot, but I suspect massage would help. Once I reduced the hours of continuous swimming the shoulder pain went completely after a week or so, and now I can swim an hour or so with no pain at all. I am sure cracking bilateral helped (I still swim unilaterally when I want to go faster).

Best wishes
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