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  #1  
Old 06-03-2016
drtse drtse is offline
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Default What is your comfortable stroke rate?

I was playing around with stroke rate at the pool yesterday and found that 54 strokes per minute seemed to be my upper threshold before my heart starts to climb excessively.

What sort of stroke rate do the rest of you enjoy?
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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Originally Posted by drtse View Post
I was playing around with stroke rate at the pool yesterday and found that 54 strokes per minute seemed to be my upper threshold before my heart starts to climb excessively.

What sort of stroke rate do the rest of you enjoy?
To some degree this depends on your stroke distance (or inversely, number of strokes per pool length), for those who have or try to have a definable range of SPL under varying conditions.

For instance, I have been working hard to get my strokes per (25 m) length to 24 over repeated 100m. I can now actually get 24 SPL over 100 m if I'm fresh with a TT of 1.30 sec, which is about 46 strokes per minute. But as the 100m repeats (which I do with steadily descending TT settings) continue, I slip to 25 SPL. Assuming 25 SPL I can get down to about TT =1.20sec (50 strokes/minute) and still barely repeat on 3 minute sendoffs. But below this I start to lose it and absolutely cannot hang on to 25 SPL.

So, if I were to continue dropping my TT to 1.15 (52strokes/min), 1.10 (54 strokes/minute) seconds, I absolutely would blow up at my present competence if I tried to get 25 SPL. But I could quite casually swim at 54 strokes/minute if I just let the stroke length adjust itself to whatever was comfortable and easy.
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  #3  
Old 06-03-2016
ti97
 
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Originally Posted by sclim View Post

So, if I were to continue dropping my TT to 1.15 (52strokes/min), 1.10 (54 strokes/minute) seconds, I absolutely would blow up at my present competence if I tried to get 25 SPL. But I could quite casually swim at 54 strokes/minute if I just let the stroke length adjust itself to whatever was comfortable and easy.
maybe I can put another way: the answer depends on how effectively you 'hook to' (or engage) the water....

increasing the 'slippage' requires less energy output per stroke allowing you to maintain a higher turnover without hitting your work limit....try the 'fist drill' to demonstrate this
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  #4  
Old 06-04-2016
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Originally Posted by ti97 View Post
maybe I can put another way: the answer depends on how effectively you 'hook to' (or engage) the water....

increasing the 'slippage' requires less energy output per stroke allowing you to maintain a higher turnover without hitting your work limit....try the 'fist drill' to demonstrate this
That's an interesting way to think of it--I'll mull that over. It's not immediately clear to me that increasing slippage as you describe it is the only (or even the best) way to increase turnover, though. My recent experiments have shown me that speeding up the recovery motion will increase turnover without increasing slippage.

But of course a high turnover is not a good thing by itself (neither is a low SPL)--the fun and complexity comes in when you start to juggle the variables of stroke rate, stroke length, and perceived exertion to see how different combinations affect speed.
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  #5  
Old 06-04-2016
ti97
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
My recent experiments have shown me that speeding up the recovery motion will increase turnover without increasing slippage.
I agree -- this gets your recovery arm back into the water in a shorter time than completing the pull. I tried that once but didn't get the hang of it. If I understand it correctly, the 'tempo' through the water is different than through the air.

It's kind of like walking with a normal stride on the left step and a giant stride on the right step -- try it.
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Higher stroke rate, more kicks = increased effort - always.

Stroke rate and stroke length are based on height (wing span), skill set and swim distance (what you can sustain)

When in doubt what to do - just do the math:

Example:
SL = 1.3yards (15 spl)
tempo = 55 stokes per minute or 1.09 seconds per stroke
speed = 1.3y x 55spm = 71.5 yards per minute
100 pace = 100/71.5 = 1.399 mins = 1:23.94

Alternatively

SL = 1.05yards (19 spl)
tempo = 70 stokes per minute or 0.86 seconds per stroke
speed = 1.05y x 70spm = 73.5 yards per minute
100 pace = 100/73.5 = 1.36 mins = 1:23.0

However if you can sustain 70spm and drop a stroke to 18 spl, 100y pace would be 1:18. Dropping a stroke at any rate yields the quickest results to faster pace.

Do the math, find out what stroke rate, stroke length combination will get you to your goal(s).

Stuart
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  #7  
Old 06-04-2016
ti97
 
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Tom, Look at this link posted by descending on the other thread....at about 0:38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh_dz45aT3I

is this 'swinger' style what you are talking about?

Stuart, curious what do you think about that?
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  #8  
Old 06-06-2016
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Higher stroke rate, more kicks = increased effort - always.
This is interesting to hear because my own experience has not fit this pattern UNLESS you specify that the higher SR comes with the same stroke distance (SPL).

I've found that by upping my stroke rate but decreasing stroke length minimally (+1 or +2 SPL), my speed increases while my perceived effort drops dramatically.

I suspect that's because in much of my practice I'm an extreme outlier for low SPL, low SR, slow tempo swimming, though, so maybe it's not the same as everyone. But allowing myself extra strokes per length automatically seems to make me faster, but I work less hard than I do when I swim more slowly with a lower SPL.
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