elbow angle prior to catch

[andyinnorway]

It must be Autumn because my head is full of technical curiosity again.

My observations are that there are two predominant ways to point the elbows during the spear phase, at 10 and 2 on the clock or 8 and 4.

Terry, Shinji and Sun Yang all seem to favour the latter, 8 and 4 as this gives you a straighter arm and therefore a little more reach(+DPS). The elbow is then 'popped' or comes up as the shoulder rotates to form the catch.

Rebecca Adlington, the swim smooth guys and some sprinters, use the 10 and 2 position, meaning that they spear the water with their arm or shoulder pre rotated, like the arm of a mechanical digger, and not dissimilar to ballet 1st position rotated 90 degrees, the arm forms a curved wing like position.

The advantage of this is that the forearm can just drop into the catch and therefore seems to be the choice of swimmers with higher stroke rate.

I seem to have ended up with one of each at the moment, long and straight on my extended arm as I turn to breathe and digger like on the other.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this and is there a TI coaching position that recommends the straight arm or is it just coincidence that Terry and Shinji both use it? Which puts less strain on the shoulders?

[WFEGb]

Hello Andy,

think anywhere is a thread where CoachSuzanne discussed the medical view for different spearangles...

The 10/2 position may give you the FEEL for (a little) more DPS because the catch has to embrace more felt water.

The 8/4 position might give you a more effortless FEELing just before the push phase because the arm falls (better should fall) into the right position nearly by itself.

There's anywhere a video with coach Gadi from Israel (Tempo and Strokes Drill). He's nearly a 9/3 spear swimmer. He starts the catch with a little wave from his hands. Think this gives him the FEELing of a better leverage for his catch-pre-push...

Sure you'll find a best TI-way in this curiosities.

Regards,
Werner

[Ghul]

I am having slight difficulty visualizing this but if I've understood you correctly
doesn't the 10/2 angle suggest a thumb-first entry, which seems to be thought
by many a no-no these days (too much internal rotation so bad for shoulder)?

[CharlesCouturier]

I'd like to follow that one, but still can't understand that 10/2 o clock thing

[WFEGb]

Hi Charles,

think it's the spear angle measured parallel to water surface. Head is the pointer's axis, arm is the pointer. 10 (swimming to the left side) is a little bit upward direction, 4 (swimming from right to left) is a little bit downward...

Hope that will fit Andy's intention...

Regards,
Werner

[andyinnorway]

i'll do some youtube stills and elaborate.

[tomoy]

I'm still a little confused with this... which direction is 12:00? From the side, in most of these, pointing to the right? It would seem that 10/2 would be facing up out of the water, and that's confusing since neither are pointing out of the water.

From above facing forward? Then 8/4 would be pointing backwards, which also is confusing.

Maybe we're talking rotation of the arm, so 12:00 would be facing your palm up? And 6:00 would be rotating all the way like a thumbs-down position?