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Old 07-10-2017
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675

Thanks for clarifying Fooboo.
Originally Posted by fooboo View Post
OK. On left flank, left leading arm. Left forearm goes EVF. That way swimmer early grabs water and tries to early pull and push. We don't pull or push. We wait till we are on the opposite flank, the right one, and then make vertical forearm.
You are right, but the main problem swimmers like me have (not having previously been "swimmers") is grabbing/catching the water. If we grab at the water it disappears. If we are too relaxed the water ignores us. I believe we need to "feel" the water VERY early, perhaps as the fingertips reach the last part of the spear, but I think as soon as any movement away from spear begins. But I agree that applying too much force too early is a recipe for disaster in the stroke and physically.

So, NOT saying we should "grab" and pull but that we should find and feel the water as something thick, exactly as you say I think.

Originally Posted by fooboo View Post
Personally, I feel how water is tick. It is something one might lean on. Takes time to stay with leading arm extended prolonged and do nothing.
Time is not enough as timing is what's critical. Although it's possible to reduce stroke rate by extending the spearing time this tends to just result in the "overglider" thing. I have spemt over a years (!?!) going down this path, and sometimes I got my SPL right down to 12. But I never managed to find a way to sustain that (even assuming sustaining it would be good). I wanted to have a TT set faster than 1.6, the sort of rate I was swimming at, but lowering it brought the impact of bad timing back.

Working with the TT settings ( pyramids etc) did not help as swimming so slowly does not give a full enough experience of the water so I was learning littler about the timing - the critical ingredient of it all.

Originally Posted by fooboo View Post
So, recovery connected to the hip, the kick to help it, late anchor to give an... anchor. Has to be correctly paced, all parts to come together. I finally found the proper head position during breathing. The culprit was pre-viously injured shoulder, which did not move at needed place to open an armpit fully and keep low drag. Solved. I work on it.
I can really identify with that. I've been finding the "open armpit thing" key in finding an overall shape and feel for the stroke. But I needed to find a way to truly relax in the extended spear position AND still breathe before it yielded results. I found it is more complex that simple execution though, as both forward momentum is required and the recovery cannot have got going. Otherwise the recovering arm pushes you back down into the water

What seems to be helping me most at the moment is using the TT to focus on spear and kick co-ordination. It shifts my awareness away from the other half of the stroke. I've tried focusing on spear-kick co-ordination before but with patchy results (a standard issue in my learning). The foundational things that have changed to make it effective now are:
  • getting the feel for the water at the beginning of the catch (early not during the acceleration phase)
  • getting early/easy/full/good breath by lying on a relaxed spear ("open armpit")
Two other thing that have come into focus during all this are:
  • kick timing (not too late not too early)
  • swimming downhill (a feeling produced by being horizontal during/after breath)
The second is tied/follows the first. The kick brings/keeps the legs at the surface.

Apologies for the length of this. It's good to talk! Gets things clear and helps fix them in memory I think.
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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