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Old 12-15-2016
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Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
The principal reason that breaststroke is slower than the other strokes is that so much is done the wrong way underwater. Breaststroke is the only stroke in which you recover your arms underwater. and is the only stroke that even has a kick recovery (which is also done underwater). You can, of course, recover your arms over the water if you're not bound by the rules of competition breaststroke. It used to be that the rules for competiton breaststroke were looser than they are now, and that's what breaststrokers began doing. It got to the point where it appeared that the old way of doing breaststroke was going to disappear, and that's when they tightened the rules for breaststroke and began calling the breaststroke with the over-the-water recovery and dolphin kick butterfly.

Hi thank you Bob for the insight.
I learned through my own researches that butterfly evolved from breaststroke, but I am unaware of the other types of breaststroke you are speaking about. I will make personal researches but which era should I look at?

Isn't swimming interesting? It gets really complicated to tell what work best from regulation, the continual improvement of the athletes level of fitness on's body type, one's level of fitness, etc.

I wonder if the regulator should open things up a little. As it stands we have or four canons for swimming, things are evolving but I would say it is fine tuning. Meanwhile we have high speed camera, great understanding of hydrodynamics, of training and human fitness too, etc. I feel with a reasonable level of confidence that the canons were set too early in Man History.
I wonder if they could go down to 2 categories: alternate movement (current freestyle), simultaneous movement.
Actually I'm iffy about back as it serves really few purpose in real lie condition. I use it sometime to rest a little but as far a swimming is concern... You can't see where you go, you can see the tiniest wave coming and there is few you can do sync your breathing with adverse condition. I think is fast but also useless.

By lessening the number of categories to 2, it means that breastrokers/butterflyers would have room to compete on more distances and a more monolithic way of swimming could emerge.
Freestyle is front crawling, the technique varies from sprint to long distance (and people at TI knows better than me) yet it is the same. For "symmetric" types of swimming it is not true, the fact that I wrote typeS says it all.

As I see things there are no way to improve freestyle. It is not true for breaststroke, you have to keep the head above water, you can really use dolphin kick within the stroke, etc.
I mean it would be interesting to have breaststrokers and butterflyers to compete on fair basic it wold show that the difference of speed ain't as much as most think it is.
It should be obvious too that "breaststroke" as it is now makes no sense at all!
Butterfly could be the highest speed "mode or form" of the "symmetrical" freestyle swimming. I can envision people finishing the 1500m "symmetrical freestyle" in butterfly and why not finishing the last tenth meters or yards underwater completely if they have the juice but I can't envision people going with butterfly all along winning.
Butterfly is the only symmetrical type swimming we know (and quite possibly can be) with no under water recovery (dolphin kick has no recovery) and the arm recovery happens airborne.

I choose to post in the Breaststroke forum because butterfly is an evolution of breaststroke but I've something greater in mind. In essence I chose a shitty title for my post... lol
One side you have a stroke that is complete: alternating arms and legs you can't add other patterns into it to make it better. On the other side you have all the symmetrical movements: symmetrical arms movement with pro and con, various symmetrical kicks with pro and con, i would add some extra magic from the core body (that happens in freestyle too but thanks to the artificial conditions set by the swimming pool).
I suspect the use of that set of tools is far from maximized thanks to artificial constrains that to do not pit them together. That rises the question why swim anything else than freestyle?
My personal answer, for what it is worse is that for all its greatness freestyle is only the most efficient type of surface swimming: it teaches you nothing about underwater swimming for example. It also calls for balance in upper body, core body and lower body strength is not match for the human abilities. Now it have its specialist, it saves triathletes legs but I still think it is what it is the pinnacle in surface swimming and there is a lot more to swimming.

I've toyed myself with quite a few ideas but I lack the data in hard minutes and seconds. Feeling alone can be misleading as you tend to notice accelerations more than speed per self.
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