Thanks Nicodemus, i will try and play with my lead hand position some more. As i watched some of the TI videos, i had noticed that in non breathing drills evryone seemed deep in the water. However when breathing was introduced, magically everyones caps were just below the surface and creating a nice bow wave. when i first tried to introduce breathing my head was always 6-8 inches under water. I learned to swim flatter and the problem of breathing went away. However i had almost 0 rotation. So i went back to beinging more rotated in the water about 45 degrees and found that my rotation felt good but my head was back to beinging submerged about 6-8 inches under water which made it harder to breath. I have not yet found the correct combination of rotation and head position. I will take a look today and see if i am forcing my head down when i look down.