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Old 06-02-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Desc,

Thanks for your feedback. Both Gerry and I are LA Tri Club coaches and have mutual respect, we really have far more in common than what separates us.

I'm curious though of your "TI swimmer". Was she/he self coached through DVD/book only until getting live feedback from one of your coaches on deck?

The question wasn't rhetorical. Both propulsive and resistant forces work and react together for any vessel that moves through water. Propulsive forces must exceed resistant forces in order to move forward - I'm sure we can agree on that. Is it better to increase power to overcome resistant forces, or decrease resistant forces to move faster?

I've swam next to triathletes (many who are good swim friends) that have a stroke rate of 70-75spm, and I at 55-60spm - and both of us going the same speed or velocity. My priority is maintaining the shape of the vessel and getting a good grip/hold on the water, while the triathlete in focusing on the low side (pulling arm) moving water back fast. Both arrive at the same solution (or speed) given the problem. It all comes down to some math that many seem to reject or ignore, math that started with Bill Boomer and Terry notes in his presentation. SPM * SL = Velocity or speed. Like propulsive and resistant forces, stroke rate and stroke length are not mutually exclusive.

Stuart
I will have to ask him what his exact material exposure was, but if I understood him from first meeting his old tri coach was a TI proponent who taught that to all the people on the tri-team. Not sure if he went deeper than that on his own.

Well I agree that propulsion has to overcome whatever drag that swimmer presents. Regarding your triathlete compatriots. Have you possibly had a chance to swim next to someone who swims at say 70-75spm who leaves you in the proverbial dust in that group of swimmers you are with? And if so is that person 'doing it wrong?'. From my chair I would say no b/c for many of us it's about touching the wall first. Could that person possibly be faster at a slower stroke rate? Absolutely it's possible. I just know in my own swimming the harder I practice the faster I get! If that changes I might think about trying something else b/c all I'm looking for is steady progress and if I stop getting that then I gotta hit the drawing board. I just know I'm not going to be the guy who walks up to the stud leading lane 1 at practice who races the 200-500 at about 75-80 spm and tell him he needs to rethink his stroke:/ I mean the guy was good enough to go to college for free at a big D1 program so he can't be that bad. Likewise it would be hard to tell the new guy on the squad that by adding a 6 beat and picking up his SR that he's making a mistake, while he has simultaneously become fast enough to start making the send offs.

In a nutshell. It *seems* and perhaps I'm wrong there is so much confusion with applying TI and people not getting faster here on this forum that I question why no one wants to look at what has worked and keeps working for thousands and thousands of Masters swimmers around the world. Show up, swim with some intensity and repeat and get faster. That is what resonated with Gerry's Do's and Don't list: Don't use front quadrant or a catch up stroke. Don't bilateral breathe. Don't forget to incorporate fast swimming in every single workout. Don't have low stroke rates. Swim a good portion high intensity sets. etc. Then I look at the hundreds of testimonials on his page of people saying how they met and blew past their goals seems like he is doing a lot right, but it seems to be in stark contrast to TI in many respects.

Last edited by descending : 06-02-2016 at 05:23 PM.
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