Thread: Slipping
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Old 05-14-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675

Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Talvi,

You don't want to consciously think of drawing an "S curve", which can cause overuse injuries shoulder and rotator. You only need to think the arm is coming straight back. A natural "S curve" will happen as a consequence of correct position and timing as you roll from one edge to the other. Coach Dave describes this best in this video: High Elbow Catch

Here's Shinji in Before After Ti video. Watch from 00:24 the below surface front view in slo-mo. You will see the path of the underwater recovery as the body rotates from one edge to the other; as shoulders are narrow on one edge, widen at transition, then narrow on opposite edge - the natural "S curve" happens with body rotation.


Great explanation Stuart, thanks very much for that :)

After i watched the Japanese video I wondered if that wasn't what was being described but having you say it makes it a forebrain thing that I can engage with. Those head on shots of swimming make what you say very clear. I was implementing the advice poorly and I'm not sure my new coaching friend saw that.

I find Coach Dave's video a problem as practising in that dryland way the first time I saw it pulled something in my shoulder - it was probably weak anyway, but I can't do those dryland drills. My right shoulder has a minor problem of some sort, some sort of soreness around the joint area.

After watching the second video what i see in them is the angle of the forearm being different. For me a focus on raising the elbow as opposed to aligning the forearm, pobably the saame thing in the end, puts a stress on my shoulder that aggravates the soreness.

My own dryland practice a few weeks back was to lie on my back! So the same as being in the water, just upside down! I stretched my arms out, in inverted SG, and then "broke"/bent my elbows until the were pointing up at the ceiling, keeping my upper arm relaxed on the bed and doing it all using as little force and in the most cofortable way I could. The result every time I did this was that my upper arms moved down until they were in line with my collar bones. I felt that if I had more flexible/strong shoulders the angle would be less i.e my upper arms would be further above my head but for me I could feel that trying to reduce the 90' angle of upper arm to bodyline introduced the stress.

Thanks again :)

@ Raini, thanks for that. He's not a TI coach but he complimented my kick and talked about how swimmers try to use their legs too much, he said that not much power comes from that but a lot of drag, he liked my roll (skating) and quiet approach to swimming, and he spoke of his own approach in which he started each session with swimmers "playing" in the water, floating and generally getting used to being in it before starting to swim. So all in all I think it's a question of "all roads lead to Rome" a bit like Charles was writing on another thread :)
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov

Last edited by Talvi : 05-14-2014 at 06:28 PM.
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