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Old 03-02-2017
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hamburg
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WFEGb
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Hello ZT and Danny,

we posted in another thread about objectives and the difficulties of measurement too. If I remember right, ZT posted streamline can be ovserved and measured nearly easy.

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TI assumes a certain style or streamlined position is best, but they cant proove it.
Please have in mind, Terry developed TI mainly for adult upset swimmers. Health on very first and as most effortless endurance as possible second and velocitiy and power anywhere later on. As Coach I do really tend to say the first two are prooved. At least in a statistic way from some (hundred?)thousands swimmers.

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So within certain limits we all are moving in an uncertain grey zone where the only tools are speed and relative effort to guide us to our personal optimal stroke.
Yes, but we are often mixing our experience with the assumptions to what we think why elites are doing somethings. So my measurements for a l ap are most precise with counting SPL and knowing what my TT is set to. A far too rough tool for elites and their coaches.

Back to thread's title, some things seeming clear (to me):

If you don't swim like a log and adding an angle between hips and shoulders you are expanding your surface watched from front and this must produce additional drag. We all know how different a well speared arm feels to a (more) drag producing with hand's position just some cm away. And both shoulders out of (stream)line will add more surface then these cm. I'll admit, drag produced by turned shoulders is more difficult to feel and realize, because it's body-driven.

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The resultant arm force is acting outside the centerline, certainly if you pull on wide tracks.
This steers your vessel to the other side. making it move a bit from side to side.
Well that's physics, but the "wide" tracks are more a "to be felt picture" (and even more for the recovery arm). They are on shoulder width and not as wide as possbile. So the tracks should be in an optimum for health(!), and best compromise in leverages between propulsion and disruption of direction. Our picture of "hand holding place" seems extremely helpful for that (to me). And body rotation will also help to get a not as large lever.

ZT, once you posted a link to excavators driving tree trunks. Think this would be impossible to do with tree trunks with joints in the middle but like "long logs".

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Bending the spine a bit together with the pulling arm countersteers this effect, naking the upperbody move straight forward instead of slightly sideways.
This slight spine bending happens to also be the natural action to deliver maxinal force with the upperbody. We are talking details, but not beyond perception.
I'd tell my students to try to get their necessary countersteers in a more balanced way from a logged body, the opposite spearing arm and optimized levers while rolling (with imagining holded hand on track)...

ZT, you're doubting the kayak-principle. Hmm... But it is easier to throw a rigid spear away than a three-parted. And if you'll throw a three-parted, it will be easier to put your force-atackpoint into the first part. That's about stable and instable equilibrium. It does not mean there aren't artists who can throw their three-parted spears much farther than I my rigid one... or throw it much farther attacking on the last part than I attacking in the first... (And if you'll start learning balancing a boomstick on your fingertips you should not start with a three-parted one...)

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Nobody knows exactly what is optimal.
Yes, and at least everyone has to decide for himself what's optimal overall inside.

Some weeks ago I had a shower-chat with an extremely powerful but as inefficient swimmer. Me:"You are swimming with extreme power into every stroke..." He laughing:"Yes! That's why I do it. And when I go home I do feel as the luckiest man in the world, everytime!" So we talked on about well being in the water and the life itself. He definitely wasn't/isn't a TI-swimmer...

We should go on thinking, trying, talking and dreaming...

Best regards,
Werner

PS: Still dreaming about forum's silver-surfers meeting anywhere in the world. (Didn't talk with him, but think Terry would join us, if somehow possible...)
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