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-   O2 in H20: Breathing Skills (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   getting out of breath, still (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1508)

splashingpat 07-01-2010 02:26 PM

REALizing is a great thing!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robedon (Post 11358)
in the pool this morning,
I realized that maybe I have been breathing in too much.
could that be the case?



The secret i thnk
is getting a cup of air each time....
but Bob Whiskersdoes have an article of carbon dioxide build-up!
BUT
i BELIEVE
you will get to the bottom of this!

let us know
what you are learning!
maybe work on backstroke and tell us how that is?

westyswoods 07-01-2010 09:07 PM

The simple answer is yes, if you are not exhaling properly you get a build up of CO2 or what is often referred to as stacked effect. The exhalation is as important if not more so than inhalation, the key is to find that balance where it feels natural and you just basically forget about it. This takes time and patience with a lot of drills focusing on various aspects of relaxed breathing.

Be well and Swim Silent
Westy

splashingpat 07-02-2010 01:44 AM

I seen guys come up to get AIR and didN'T
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by westyswoods (Post 11362)
The simple answer is yes,
if you are not exhaling properly you get a build up of CO2 or
what is often referred to as stacked effect.
The exhalation is as important if not more so than inhalation,
the key is to find that balance where it feels natural and you just basically forget about it. This takes time and patience with a lot of drills focusing on various aspects of relaxed breathing. ]]


Be well
and Swim Silent
Westy

being a lifeguard
and instructor
I can't tell without seeing YA!

so these swimming guys
make it look SO EASY,
Do n't they?

robedon 07-21-2010 12:58 PM

skating breathing drill
 
this morning I tried doing the skating drill with my left arm extended and breathing to my right. I was wearing Aquasphere fins while doing this, but I did several lengths without getting winded. for some reason when I tried doing it to breathe to the right, my face was under water every time I went to get air.

the point I'm trying to make, is when i swim whole stroke, I get winded in a lap or 2, and when I was only skating I didn't.

When I swim whole stroke, I just don't feel like I get the right air exchange. half way across a 25m pool, I'm out of breath.

maybe I need to do only the skating drill the next few swims to see if it will help me learn how to exchange my air properly.

daveblt 07-22-2010 02:01 AM

One thing you did not mention is how often you breathe . Are you breathing every third stroke or every other ? If your breathing every third try every other and see what happens . Also in skating you are probably trying to get your balance when you roll up to breathe and inhaling with the face out of the water for a longer time and than in whole stroke so the problem is not as bad.I have been doing TI for quite a long time and have run into the same problem of not enough breath and I think one problem may be trying to take too few breaths .I'm doing 11 strokes in 25 yard pool .When I breath every other stroke instead of every third the problem is not as bad but is still there to some extent yet just before a swim I can run a mile with no problem. So I am going to try to breathe just every other stroke switching sides each lap and see what happens ( even though I'm stubborn and want to breath every third ) and try increasing the count to 12 or 13 strokes and there lies another problem , 12 feels good but anymore than that ,13 or 14 feels like I'm really churning my arms too fast and then my stroke feels like it's an off day.

Dave

ames 07-22-2010 12:20 PM

Robedon,

I am working on the same issue. My goal is to be able to swim a mile freestyle, or however long I feel like swimming. I have been stuck at a plateau for some time, where I am winded after only a lap or two, but it is getting better.

I have been practicing TI for about 9 months, before which I couldn't swim a lick. I am also 37, not in bad shape but I don't work out much, certainly not as much as you. It is not endurance keeping us from swimming long distances. I have seen several people at the pool who look very out of shape and even some who have grossly inefficient strokes but who are able to keep swimming for a long time without a break. I think it is all about getting into a breathing rhythm that is sustainable for you. Here is what has helped me so far:

I learned to swim a slow, relaxed TI breaststroke, mostly by watching videos from TI-swim Japan. I hardly use my arms at all, so it is very low-energy and easy. It is much easier to breathe in breaststroke--you don't have your head to the side and the water closing in on your nose and mouth. And you can vary your rhythm as you need more or less air without throwing off your stroke. It has given me confidence to swim in deep water and comfort to swim long distances... I have swum a mile doing b.s. and could probably go longer with it.

Then, to transfer that feeling of ease to freestyle... I did a couple laps of b.s. and timed myself and counted strokes to find out what breathing rate was comfortable. It was 13 strokes in 39 sec. or 3 sec. between breaths. So I set my Tempo Trainer to 1.5 to swim freestyle and breathe every other stroke. This actually felt a bit fast to me. As my balance has improved I realized my stroke rate has been going down and I needed to pick up the pace in order to get air as often as I would like.

This was not the magic bullet but has helped in getting me to my goal. Now I am able to swim 1 lap freestyle followed by 1 lap b.s. and am able to keep going that way. Yesterday I was amazed at how good I felt doing that and actually lost count of laps, I think it was 16. I expect to get more and more comfortable and eventually do 2 laps free, 1 lap b.s., then 3 laps free, 1 lap b.s., and so on until I have weaned myself off the breast. ha

Hope this helps.
ames

BASEtraining 07-22-2010 03:28 PM

Find your breathing rate
 
Hi,

I am not sure if this is your issue or not but it could be....I worked with a triathlete recently that was breathing out too much air right after taking a breath and then she pretty much had to hold her breath until the next cycle. This was causing her to be out of breath and hyperventilating after only a short while. Others I have seen have held their breath until right before their breathing cycle and it cause similar issues. Here is an exercise you can do to help.

Take a breath and push off into superman glide. Slowly bubble out your breath until you begin to sink (this will be a fairly distinct moment...the moment when you become more dense than water with little to no air in your lungs). This point will be different for each person based on your body fat percentage or basically your body's density and such. Do this as many times as it takes to get a good feel for the percentage of your breath that you need to blow out to begin to sink (i.e. do you start to sink when you have released 75% of that full breath or 90%?). When you have a good feel for the percentage, begin practicing releasing that amount or little less thant that amount between each breathing cycle in your regular swim stroke. This will make your breathing more consistent, may keep you from feeling out of breath, and will keep you from sinking due to lack of air in the lungs.

I hope this helps.

Ryan
B.A.S.E. Training

atreides 07-22-2010 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robedon (Post 11784)
this morning I tried doing the skating drill with my left arm extended and breathing to my right. I was wearing Aquasphere fins while doing this, but I did several lengths without getting winded. for some reason when I tried doing it to breathe to the right, my face was under water every time I went to get air.

the point I'm trying to make, is when i swim whole stroke, I get winded in a lap or 2, and when I was only skating I didn't.

When I swim whole stroke, I just don't feel like I get the right air exchange. half way across a 25m pool, I'm out of breath.

maybe I need to do only the skating drill the next few swims to see if it will help me learn how to exchange my air properly.

As a championship member of the one lap club, I feel especially qualified to chime in here. Although I haven't overcome the problem, I think I 'm am closing in on its solution. Here are some factors for your consideration:

1. The number one enemy of swimming endurance, I believe, is the inability to relax properly. In my case I carry a lot of tension in my upper body. There are lots of reasons why I tighten up. I can start out relaxed but will tighten up if I miss a breath or feel as though my hips or dropping. You got to learn to relax in order to have good endurance.

2. Most of the time I work too hard. I have been putting in a more compact recovery based on Terry's new DVD. Just this morning I was swimming a lap when I noticed that if I would catch and hold (go vertical with my forearm but slow down with any pulling motion) then kick and rotate at the same time my arms still moved like I was pulling but I really wasn't "pulling". For me this is difficult to execute because I'm so use to moving my arms backwards as I excute a stroke cycle. But if I learn to execute this move consistently and properly the energy reduction will be significant.

3. I used to think my breathing was the cause of all my ills. I no longer think this because I really don't think about breathing that much. I exhale through my nose and breathe in through my mouth. I rarely miss a breath and I'n no longer suffereing the acute respiratory stress that I experienced when I first started. Most of the time I just get tired. I'm going to go back to what I said about tightness. When you're tight you fatigue easily and as you fatigue you get tighter. Think about it. If you could be assured that you stay perfectly horizontal while you swam, then your only jobs would be to breathe every now and then and paddle yourself (think of yourself as a canoe). But if your canoe starts sinking in the back what's the first thing you do. You try to right yourself. Bale water. Paddle faster. Fatigue sets in very rapidly under those conditions.

So if I were you, I would determine if my breathing problems are acute or not. I call acute the kind of distress that that causes you to swim as hard as you can after an impulse kicks off as you are swimming. That's oxygen debt and the impulse is probably CO2 related. As many have said, you will need to work on exhaling properly. But if you are just getting tired, you need to eliminate the energy wasters. Body tension. Overstroking. When you think about it, if you take most of the work out of the arms and transfer it to your core then how much energy are you really using? It's really more about timing and rhythmn. But I'm right there with you. Get Terry's Self Coached video and
start eliminating those energy losses.

qneill 07-22-2010 08:01 PM

+1 @atreides comments about fatigue factors.

I have been swimming since I was 5 but quite inefficiently due to poor form. After getting into triathlons, I turned to TI to swim faster, and I am a 100% convert. I found though that I had to "back into" the form and effeciency gains - first I had to sense what was happening and then break the bad habits.

Anyway - Have you tried swimming with a bouy (between the legs)? This might give you some feedback about 1) what the torso is doing and 2) ease some of your tension due to fears of sinking. It may give you some confidence as well allowing you to swim longer and get your breathing rhythm.

energeticspace 07-22-2010 09:07 PM

Try a few Yoga Breaths
 
I think I read this on one of Terry's posts but I'm not a yoga fan so I wasn't too open to give it a try. At a Freestyle Workshop that I just attended, the coach had us try the yoga breaths before we launched ourselves in the water and I was so surprised how much it relaxed me. My breathing was much improved by that simple exercise. I believe the deep breaths helped to relax all the muscles that are fighting for survival because somewhere in my head I think I'm not going to make it and my muscles tense up. Hope that helps.


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