Total Immersion Forums

Total Immersion Forums (
-   Freestyle (
-   -   Times when using a 2bk and flutter kick (

johynr]]] 02-07-2017 09:39 AM

Times when using a 2bk and flutter kick
My times are always faster when I use a flutter kick for a given energy level. For example over 500m my flutter times are more than 1 minute quicker.

Is this normal or does it indicate errors in my technique?

If errors, what are the most likely? Balance?

Thanks in advance.

s.sciame 02-07-2017 12:32 PM

Well, more than 1 minute over 500m sounds quite a lot. It means more than 12s per 100m on average, huge. And we are talking about a relaxed flutter kick, not an all out sprint kick, right?

I should wear a pair of long fins to gain more than 1 minute over 500m. More likely your flutter kick masks some balance issues.

Are you faster with a pull buoy than you are with 2bk? If so, that's the confirm.

Hope that helps,

johynr]]] 02-07-2017 12:41 PM

Just a gentle flutter, yes.

I'll try it with a pulll buoy and see.

Thanks for the suggestion.

CoachStuartMcDougal 02-07-2017 02:16 PM

Hi John,

If you are faster with timed flutter vs a 2bk, likely the legs are splaying or scissoring on 2bk due to an imbalance. Scissor/splaying legs is the body's reaction to stabilize the vessel. Flutter or 6bk doesn't have a much time to splay and adds stability by virtue of more kicks. A visual/focus you can use to help identify the imbalance is "kick inside the bucket" in 2bk and 6bk, compact the kick. Like kicking inside a 5 gal painters bucket, don't kick outside the bucket.


Abdargush 02-07-2017 03:49 PM

I am not a coach but I would gladly express my non-expert opinion, if your permit.

I second everything that has been written hereabove.
Also, I think that your case is typical of swimmers with "hammer" feet. Instead of kicking with feet straight (in-line with the leg), the feet are at a 90 angle with respect to the leg. The feet push water forward, thus propulsing the body backwards. Some swimmers actually move backwards when kicking (no arms)!

This phenomenon is enhanced when the hips is low, on the down kick by pushing water forward with more surface area (the foot and the lower leg), and on the up kick by overly bending the knee. A bigger kick amplitude also enhances this phenomenon.

When flutter kicking, the feet interact less as they are "dangling" behind the hips.

It (hammer feet) can be seen in the video of yourself that you posted last year, where you flutter kick:

johynr]]] 02-08-2017 08:15 AM

Thanks everybody for the suggestions and advice.

Looks like I'd better try and get my kicking sorted out then. This in itself is going to be difficult. What do you think a sensible learning progression would be for me?

CoachStuartMcDougal 02-08-2017 04:47 PM

Hi John,

Kicking from the knees is a very common issue, especially those initially learning 2bk, and will cause a significant deceleration/acceleration with each kick; leg bends back (or upward) from knee, deceleration -- leg kicks down to extended position - acceleration occurs. Much like stepping on the brakes with each kick. 6bk/flutter, legs don't have a much time to bend from knees, 2bk much more time.

To acquire a kick from hips/glutes, minimizing knee bend, you can start using fins - long fins, not shorties. Feel the flow starting from hip and finishing through toes or end of fin. It's very difficult to kick from knees with long fins, actually nearly prevents you from kicking from knees. Experience the flow from hip with fins and remove and try to feel the same motion without.


johynr]]] 02-08-2017 07:34 PM

Thanks Stuart.

Are there any fins that you can recommend that are cost effective (cheap) as I will only use them for the kicking practice?


CoachStuartMcDougal 02-08-2017 07:40 PM

Hi John,

Most any standard swim fin will do (not shorty or some advanced shape). is a good source:


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.