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-   -   Is this a legal start? (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9658)

gde061 07-29-2018 08:11 PM

Is this a legal start?
 
From what I understand about the current start rule for breaststroke, the dolphin kick can come any time before the 1st breast kick. So it should be legal to start: Breaststroke arm stroke, Butterfly kick, Breaststroke kick...

I would appreciate opinions, particularly from officials or coaches, as to whether this start is legal:

https://youtu.be/tu21ngkMbEA

(Here is a link to a rules interpretation from CT, although this swim was in OH -- https://www.ctswim.org/Customer-Cont...rification.pdf)

Thanks

IngeA 07-31-2018 02:17 PM

That depends on where the race was. In Germany dolphin armstroke and dolphin kick have to be in one motion, in the international rules that's not so, as far as I know. For that: In a national race in Germany this start leads to qualification, in an international race it should not.
But I'm not a competitive swimmer, maybe I'm wrong.

Best regards

Inge

IngeA 07-31-2018 02:20 PM

Once again me:

Now I've seen something: in the dolphin kick the legs were apart. It was something in between a wrong breast kick and a dolphin kick. Perhaps that was the reason?

CoachBobM 08-01-2018 11:23 AM

There's nothing in the rules pertaining to a butterfly (dolphin) kick that says the legs have to be together.

Was this meet being judged under USA Swimming rules?

What reason did the stroke judge give for the DQ?


Bob

IngeA 08-01-2018 03:02 PM

No, the legs are allowed to be apart. But when they are closed during the kick like in a breast stroke kick, it's forbidden.
As the camera is not exactly behind the swimmer, it's not to be seen properly, but for me it looks like there ist the snapping, closing motion (whip kick) like in a breast kick.

Best regards

Inge

CoachBobM 08-01-2018 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IngeA (Post 66159)
No, the legs are allowed to be apart. But when they are closed during the kick like in a breast stroke kick, it's forbidden.
As the camera is not exactly behind the swimmer, it's not to be seen properly, but for me it looks like there ist the snapping, closing motion (whip kick) like in a breast kick.

Best regards

Inge

The definition of a butterfly (dolphin) kick in USA Swimming rules is:

"All up and down movements of the legs and feet must be simultaneous. The position of the legs or the feet need not be on the same level, but they shall not alternate in relation to each other. A scissors or breaststroke kicking movement is not permitted."

There is nothing about whether the legs are together or apart.

The rules for breaststroke kicking say:

"After the start and each turn, at any time prior to the first breaststroke kick a single butterfly kick is permitted. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement.
The feet must be turned outwards during the propulsive part of the kick. Scissors, alternating movements or downward butterfly kicks are not permitted except as provided herein. Breaking the surface of the water with the feet is allowed unless followed by a downward butterfly kick."


Bob

gde061 08-02-2018 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachBobM (Post 66151)
There's nothing in the rules pertaining to a butterfly (dolphin) kick that says the legs have to be together.

Was this meet being judged under USA Swimming rules?

What reason did the stroke judge give for the DQ?


Bob

The official "explained" to the coach it was the start, and the coach's impression looking at the video was that her her arm pull after the dolphin kick was viewed as an illegal pull out. That does not make sense to me. The official's report (USA) says: arms: two strokes under (3F).

Yes, this meet was under USA rules.

Thanks for the analysis.

IngeA 08-02-2018 04:38 PM

Another question:

Is it allowed to do first the dolphin kick, then the dolphin armstroke ....

Because the girl two lanes to the right has a red swimsuit too, and she does the dolphin kick before the armstroke and with still tight arms. Somewhere I've heard, that the arms before have to be separated. But it may be I understood wrong.

Best regards

Inge


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