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Spideroffaith77 03-23-2011 01:25 PM

more propulsion
so I posted earlier about stroke count, and you guys were really helpful. So I have yet another question for you. Propulsion, how do I get more bang for my buck.
When I first started swimming with TI I was still flailing(sp?) away with my legs (lack of balance), but I was able to get my stroke count down to 15 without working hard.
Now I have gotten down the concept of a two beat kick, but my stroke count is back up to 20. My balance has gotten to the point where I can swim without kicking/sinking, but somewhere I lost power.

how do I get more push out of each stroke. Is it a lack of rotation in my hips, do I need more push with my arms.

Any advice is always welcome. Thank you!!!

westyswoods 03-23-2011 01:35 PM

More Propulsion

I anxiously await responses to your question as I am looking at the same situation. I suspect it is in the power or lack there of through power generation in the hip rotation.

Waiting for feedback

Swim Silent and Be Well

Spideroffaith77 03-23-2011 04:19 PM

Im with you. I think my problem is a lack of rotation in my hips. I felt that in my swim yesterday. my torso was rotating but not my hips.

I eagerly await responses as well

CoachRyan 03-23-2011 07:20 PM

More Propulsion
Spider and Westy,

Do either of you have videos of your swimming that are recent? That would help a lot. It is difficult to say what the issue could be without seeing you swim.

However, I will give you a few things that I would look at assuming that you have good balance and good streamlining in the water.

1) Hip rotation like you mentioned. If your hips and upper body aren't rotating together then that means you are not getting the full potential energy from your "high side" as you make the weight shift on each stroke. Don't let yourself over-rotate when you work on this though. The goal would be to rotate together...not necessarily to increase rotation. You don't want to end up on your side and out of balance.

2) Check your front quadrant timing. In other words, check that your lead hand does not begin the pull until the recovery hand is beginning to pierce the water just forward and to the side of the head. You lose streamlining when you pull too early and you also again lose the "high side" potential energy because your body begins to rotate before you spear forward. To take full advantage of that energy, you must remain in the "skate position" with body rotated with lead hand in place during your recovery until the "trigger point" when you release the energy by spearing forward from the hand entry point, rotating your hips and upper body, and initiating the catch/pull all at the same time.

Let me know if that doesn't make sense and let me know if you have a video I can watch.

dzhou01 03-23-2011 08:21 PM

I had the same issue as you: when I applied 2 beat kick, stroke count increased.
I was able to get the stroke count down again by practicing weight shift as demonstrated in Lesson 9-single arm practice in the 10 lesson perpetual motion freestyle DVD. Lesson 9 teaches you how to use weight shift/gravity in hip rotation as a source of energy. Also, doing 2 beat kick right is also important-it adds power to your propulsion.

Janos 03-23-2011 08:52 PM

Hi Spider and Westy,

It is interesting that your stroke count went up with the introduction of the two beat kick, as this confirms you have more work to do on your balance and profile, to reduce it again. Getting your stroke count consistent, and lower than the benchmark figure of 20 strokes per 25m length will show you have increased efficiency and your speed should start to increase.
To increase power, you really need to study the relationship between the hip drive and your catch. The stronger your catch, the more power you can apply against it, and so you will travel further for each stroke.
I do a drill where I start one lap with say my right arm taking the first full stroke, and then leave the arm extended, then recover the left arm using the underswitch technique, with concentrated study on the right arm catch, and then right arm recovery again. Focusing on catch and recovery with one arm for a whole lap. Then, change arms, and focus again on catch and recovery. After a few laps you will notice a difference in feel during the catch phase. Perhaps your right arm will feel much more positive than your left (as in my case), and you can then isolate the weakness and focus on improving the feel on that side. When you get that feeling of improved grip on your weak side, try a few laps of whole stroke, and feel the difference.


terry 03-23-2011 09:19 PM

If SPL has increased by 30% plus the cause is far more likely to be excess drag than insufficient propulsion.

westyswoods 03-23-2011 11:12 PM

More Propulsion
Thanks To All,

I have posted video taken last evening. As usual reality does not match the feeling.

Some of my thoughts. One of my problem areas is definitely left side breathing and maintaining balance. I have known by feel that the left arm recovery is not as clean and efficient as the right. Oh my I sure did not know it looked like the Loch Ness Monster over rotation driving body down and inhibiting good intake of air on left side. Finger nail drags are in order again and again.

It appears as I may be over rotating especially on breath cycles.

Lead hands do appear to be patient although my spearing may be too low.

Attempts at quieting legs have improved but still need to settle high side leg with two beat kick.

Enough for me any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated.

This video is posted as a learning tool for all and hope we strive for constant improvement.

In closing does anyone have suggestions for sites to post video as I am not exactly thrilled with Mobile Me?

Swim Silent and Be Well

sinker 03-23-2011 11:31 PM

"In closing does anyone have suggestions for sites to post video as I am not exactly thrilled with Mobile Me?"

"Westy, Was looking forward to seeing your video, but it required "Quick Time" to play it. Do not have it and was dubious about downloading it for this one viewing. Hope you find another posting site.

westyswoods 03-24-2011 12:09 AM

Mobile Me Video & Quick Time

Thanks for the quick feedback. To all who may be interested in viewing the posted Video in Mobile Me. I had problems last weekend with some other video needing Quick Time.

I will be reformatting to You Tube ASAP. For some who use Mobile Me it most likely will work. To all enlighten me if there is an easier way and or I am doing something wrong. I struggle with this techie stuff.

Swim Silent and Be Well

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