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-   -   I need O2 in my life! (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9546)

whoiscathy 03-06-2018 12:42 PM

I need O2 in my life! (Learning to breathe in FS)
 
So, I have yet to take a breath... Any breath, wonky or pretty -- at this point I'd take anything. I've got water in more times than I care to count. Sometimes so much water I was puking for hours afterwards. So I go 25s without breathing at all but I know it isn't the solution.

Almost at the 4 month mark now. Quite annoyed.

Danny 03-06-2018 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoiscathy (Post 64914)
At the moment I also "hate" it. I have yet to take a breath... Any breath, wonky or pretty -- at this point I'd take anything. I've got water in more times than I care to count. Sometimes so much water I was puking for hours afterwards. So I go 25s without breathing at all but I know it isn't the solution.

Almost at the 4 month mark now. Quite annoyed.

Cathy, your response above is alarming, and I'm sure it will arouse lots of feedback, so here is mine. I think part of your problem may be that you have set yourself some unrealistic goals. You are almost at the 4 month mark now, and quite dissatisfied with your progress. I feel for you. I have been swimming for 20 years now and I have spent most of that time dissatisfied with my progress as well. I will leave it to others to give you advice about how to swim without inhaling water. But part of the problem may be your frustration about your progress. We are all different, and our past histories also play a role in how fast we progress. Swim instructors can sometimes be too quick to predict vast improvement. Otherwise they may not be doing their job.

I would suggest going back to some level you feel comfortable with in the water. Right now it is more important for you to re-establish a sense of enjoyment than to learn how to breath properly. Without the enjoyment, there is no sense in any of the rest of this.

Good luck and keep us informed!

whoiscathy 03-06-2018 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny (Post 64915)

I would suggest going back to some level you feel comfortable with in the water. Right now it is more important for you to re-establish a sense of enjoyment than to learn how to breath properly. Without the enjoyment, there is no sense in any of the rest of this.

Danny, I am comfortable in the water. I even enjoy it. I don't get water in while "just" swimming, meaning, I go 25m, no problem. Problem is that I just can't (progress to) breathe. All my breathing attempts end up in a drowning frenzy. That frustrates me. :(

WFEGb 03-06-2018 10:46 PM

Hello Cathy,

as Danny wrote: Most important seems to be finding your enjoyment again! Four months of learning breathing in FS definitely isn't a long time...

My first thought is: How to go to revise (or test) the roots? Balance-Streamline-Balance-Streamline...

Did you go through a course step by step? (Terry's 1.0 or the older Perpetual Motion.) Otherwise give it a try and start with first step...

Is it possible to put a video in here, so someone might find an issue causing your frustration...

And have in mind, three of Terry's mantras:

- Never practice struggle

- Strive for conscious inkompetenz

- Love the plateau

- If you don't reach your goal today, take it neither good nor bad. It's simply a fact to work with tomorrow. (Not sure, if it's from Terry...)

Hope you'll find enjoyment in every stroke soon!

Best regards,
Werner

whoiscathy 03-06-2018 11:21 PM

Hello Werner,

Nonono :) I started to swim as such on the 7th Nov last year. So that will be 4 months tomorrow. I'd never swum before. Breathing "only" in the last two or three weeks (can't remember).

We're using the Ultra-Efficient Freestyle.

Problem is that I'm moving within days and the new pool is 50m so I can't get away with this one length on one breath thing anymore and I hate to be the wonky one in the pool. I'm a very shy person who generally struggles with self-confidence and going like that to a new pool fills me with anxiety. I really wanted to fix it while still here in my usual pool. Plus I signed up to an OW race for this summer. Not sure what I was thinking!

I guess I have some kind of balance and streamline as long as I don't try to turn my head like in a whale eye (nod is ok). In whale eye, everything falls apart: timing (hand not patient anymore), recovery goes up to the sky again, and my leading arm likes to drift closer to the surface and towards the center of the body. Not quite crossing over, but not wide tracks anymore. All this just by also rotating my head. Perplexing! Also, my head is bobbing somewhat and when I turn to breathe my head is at its lowest position so I only find water, not air. Yesterday, by some miracle, somehow I found air twice except by then I didn't trust myself to the extent that my mouth was actually closed and the whole time I held my breath, not quite trusting that I could possibly get any air in... Could be easier to grow gills than to learn this!

I'll think about posting a video. Feeling too shy at the moment. But I guess it's hard to comment if I don't post anything.



Quote:

Originally Posted by WFEGb (Post 64917)
Hello Cathy,

as Danny wrote: Most important seems to be finding your enjoyment again! Four months of learning breathing in FS definitely isn't a long time...

My first thought is: How to go to revise (or test) the roots? Balance-Streamline-Balance-Streamline...

Did you go through a course step by step? (Terry's 1.0 or the older Perpetual Motion.) Otherwise give it a try and start with first step...

Is it possible to put a video in here, so someone might find an issue causing your frustration...

And have in mind, three of Terry's mantras:

- Never practice struggle

- Strive for conscious inkompetenz

- Love the plateau

- If you don't reach your goal today, take it neither good nor bad. It's simply a fact to work with tomorrow. (Not sure, if it's from Terry...)

Hope you'll find enjoyment in every stroke soon!

Best regards,
Werner


WFEGb 03-07-2018 10:41 AM

Hello Cathy,

some thoughts, don't know if they'll fit in anyway...

Quote:

Problem is that I'm moving within days and the new pool is 50m so I can't get away with this one length on one breath thing anymore and I hate to be the wonky one in the pool. I'm a very shy person who generally struggles with self-confidence and going like that to a new pool fills me with anxiety. I really wanted to fix it while still here in my usual pool. Plus I signed up to an OW race for this summer. Not sure what I was thinking!
Ok, a LCM-pool here in Hamburg doesn't have a shallow end, so some of the drills are more difficult. But most have one or more small gym-pools aside, which are ideal for all kind of drills... and have warmer water :-) ...

But LCM-pools are most times filled with kind and helpful swimmers and much less mischievous spa-bathers. Most will be glad to have a look at your drills, before they will start or when they finished their sets. (BTW you should tell them very detailed where they should have to look for, because most of them don't have TI-eyes...)

You should feel as really braveheart and pull much self-confidence out of the fact just doing some drills in the new pool. Do them on the edges to be able to stop at once to reset, never drive yourself into a state of breathlessness (everything will fall appart if so...). And possibly you're the only person in the pool being aware to have an endless way full of challenging joy just in front of you. During the just happened Olympics a Korean adage was: If you want to go for a long march, the first step is half the way. (As mathematician not sure how this will deal with endless ways... but like it anyway.)

Have in mind it is extremely difficult to turn 8% of your body's mass relaxed on your neck while 92% should drive straight ahead. (Terry called it the most difficult exercise in all swimming.) So two things into "the blue sky" (as we in Germany say. Into the deep blue would be better in this case...)

- You are able to look aside and hold your balanced and streamlined bodyline... Try to be aware if you're really in skate-position while doing it. One of my students said the same, but he looked just aside while swimming flat. Did your chin really follow your shoulder? What happens, if you rotate 10 more... as if an apple is glued on your shoulder and on your chin?

- Develop some awareness, of in which moment your body starts to go below surface totally. And then sharpen your awareness, where in your body tension sneaked just before. Most times I (from outside) find tension in the spearing hand and/or arm (sometimes reaching to surface), the shoulders, the neck... and all this unconscious only caused by the thought: I've to turn my head to get a breath. Result is just the opposit: A former on suface well balanced swimmer sinks down 10-20cm away from air...

Sometimes we have to refine a hoped huge step in future for ourself with some smaller steps we're able to take just now... Find some things to enjoy even the smaller steps. Can't imagine anything might be as good as the Kaizen-way (especially TI's).

Best regards,
Werner

BTW: I'm in these forums for 5-6years now. It happened only one single time when a poster wrote extremely unobjective and grossly rude comments about a (coach's) video. He got a legitimate writing ban from Terry. All other videos resulted in very helpful hints (my own included)...

Mushroomfloat 03-07-2018 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoiscathy (Post 64918)
Hello Werner,

Nonono :) I started to swim as such on the 7th Nov last year. So that will be 4 months tomorrow. I'd never swum before. Breathing "only" in the last two or three weeks (can't remember).

We're using the Ultra-Efficient Freestyle.

Problem is that I'm moving within days and the new pool is 50m so I can't get away with this one length on one breath thing anymore and I hate to be the wonky one in the pool. I'm a very shy person who generally struggles with self-confidence and going like that to a new pool fills me with anxiety. I really wanted to fix it while still here in my usual pool. Plus I signed up to an OW race for this summer. Not sure what I was thinking!

I guess I have some kind of balance and streamline as long as I don't try to turn my head like in a whale eye (nod is ok). In whale eye, everything falls apart: timing (hand not patient anymore), recovery goes up to the sky again, and my leading arm likes to drift closer to the surface and towards the center of the body. Not quite crossing over, but not wide tracks anymore. All this just by also rotating my head. Perplexing! Also, my head is bobbing somewhat and when I turn to breathe my head is at its lowest position so I only find water, not air. Yesterday, by some miracle, somehow I found air twice except by then I didn't trust myself to the extent that my mouth was actually closed and the whole time I held my breath, not quite trusting that I could possibly get any air in... Could be easier to grow gills than to learn this!

I'll think about posting a video. Feeling too shy at the moment. But I guess it's hard to comment if I don't post anything.

You can have a look at this video
https://youtu.be/5V5PYspkknE

Some good tips on breathing and turning to breath in there, try not to lunge upwards for air or lurch to the side, keep straight and arrowing fowards, the breath is taken with a mouth like fish that has been hooked (lips pursed to the side)
when you fingertips enter the water turn your head away from that arm and look slightly backwards towards the tip of the upper shoulder
turn your face back down as recovery arm reaches shoulder height

Lean over the front of the stroke more and press your chest in

Mushroomfloat 03-07-2018 11:29 AM

P.S you can try something i picked up on this morning,
Try entering closer to your head, swipe your thumb on the side of your goggles and enter just ahead of that point

this will give you more support and longer to breath if you turn away from that arm as the fingers pierce the water and it extends all the way out to straight

whoiscathy 03-07-2018 12:04 PM

Be gentle :)
 
Alright, I'll upload a video. https://youtu.be/QKfajVHqf1s

I merged 2 videos. The first half was recorded last Saturday (03-03-2018) and the second half, starting at 02:12-ish, only 2 days later. I didn't attempt to breathe or do nod/whale eye in the first half, but it shows quite well my non-breathing swimming.

I think that my balance, generally speaking, is ok. Am I arching too much?

Some things I'm aware of, and working on:

- I look slightly or not so slightly forward, not straight down.
- Head bobbing (which is probably a cumulative effect of some of the following points below)
- Left entry way too much ahead of my head --> elbow splashing. Not spearing straight to target. I then push down my entire left arm.
- no TI logo with right arm unless I concentrate, but if I do manage to do a TI logo it normally comes with a thumb first entry
- Sometimes I start the catch jut a tad too early. I can do proper patient hands but it still requires 101% concentration
- I push down and not backwards during parts of the stroke. Aware of this, don't have enough body awareness for the fix...

- Right hand sometimes too high over water. Very occasionally left hand too.
- I tend to exit with left hand too early.
- My palms face upwards upon exit and I throw water out of the pool. Maybe that pushes my entire upper body down?
- I simply forget to kick when I'm really concentrating on something else!
- When it comes to the breathing part, I, at the moment, have very little awareness of what's going on. Perhaps a bit too early for me to breathe with all those things to be sorted out, but like I said, I'd really like to make a progress this week if I manage. Before I do a drowning frenzy in the 50m pool :))


So many things! I'm very new to this :)

whoiscathy 03-07-2018 12:09 PM

One more thing. I can't do Popeye. Meaning I don't know how to contort my mouth into that shape even now in front of my laptop.


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