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-   -   15 metre mark (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=140)

shuumai 12-25-2008 09:09 PM

15 metre mark
 
So, do the you, the people of this forum, practise staying under for up to 15m (16.4y)? If so, do you do it during events that are 200-400m?

During breaststroke, is it practical to stay under for 15m since constant kicking isn't allowed?

I still can't believe the underwater limit isn't shorter in a shorter pool. I mean, 15m is 60% of 25m and 65.6% of 25y.

Adam 12-27-2008 08:06 AM

I can stay underwater for about 12.5 meters when doing underwater dolphins. I think I probably routinely stay underwater for about 10 meters on each push off, except when another swimmer is right ahead of me. My underwater dolphins are faster then most freestyle swimmers in my pool, so going to fast could lead to a serious head ache.

shuumai 12-28-2008 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 968)
I can stay underwater for about 12.5 meters when doing underwater dolphins. I think I probably routinely stay underwater for about 10 meters on each push off, except when another swimmer is right ahead of me. My underwater dolphins are faster then most freestyle swimmers in my pool, so going to fast could lead to a serious head ache.

Hey, do you find that it's easier to stay under longer after you've been in the pool for a while?

Do you subtract the your body length from the underwater distance?

CoachBobM 12-28-2008 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuumai (Post 950)
So, do the you, the people of this forum, practise staying under for up to 15m (16.4y)?

Yes. That doesn't mean that I'd necessarily do it in competition. Obviously, the faster you are at a particular stroke, the harder it is going to be to extend the distance over which you can profitably streamline underwater. I will tend to streamline underwater for a longer distance when I'm doing backstroke than when I'm doing freestyle because my backstroke is slower than my freestyle.

Quote:

If so, do you do it during events that are 200-400m?
Not currently. The farther I swim without stopping to rest, the harder my body wants to breathe, and the harder it becomes to stay underwater for a long distance.

Quote:

During breaststroke, is it practical to stay under for 15m since constant kicking isn't allowed?
I can streamline about half the length of a 25y pool when I'm doing breaststroke. I don't know what the limit is for elite breaststrokers.

Quote:

I still can't believe the underwater limit isn't shorter in a shorter pool. I mean, 15m is 60% of 25m and 65.6% of 25y.
You could also argue on the same basis that it should be 30m in a 50m pool. I think the limit may have been based on how long it was deemed safe for swimmers to stay underwater, not on what percentage of their swim should consist of stroking.


Bob

Adam 12-28-2008 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuumai (Post 980)
Hey, do you find that it's easier to stay under longer after you've been in the pool for a while?

Not especially, but I do warm up using drills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuumai (Post 980)
Do you subtract the your body length from the underwater distance?

Nope. I'm 1.89m tall, if that makes any difference.

shuumai 12-28-2008 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachBobM (Post 981)
I can streamline about half the length of a 25y pool when I'm doing breaststroke. I don't know what the limit is for elite breaststrokers.

I was thinking the typical distance might be shorter for breaststroke because the kicking isn't constant so the speed must be much lower. Oh, but as you mentioned, the underwater portion might be faster than the stroke for some people.

After working on the dolphin kick, I was able to do a head-lead dolphin beyond the mid point of the pool. For the first time I can imagine making it all the way across the pool...with fins on. I can't do so well with hand-lead dolphin yet.

Jamwhite 01-07-2009 05:00 AM

I do not explicitly work on going any particular distance off a turn, but I have started doing a lot of a drill we did once in master's swim.

The drill was called "around the wall". What you do is swim a 25 plus your turn. After the turn, you do a single stroke and stop. You turn walk back to the wall and do another 25 plus turn.

I like to do this drill when practicing gearing up my speed. The reason is because I am working harder and so the farther that I can go after the turn, the longer I get to rest. In freestyle, backstroke, and butterfly (all of which dolphin after the turn), I now effortlessly clear the solid part of the lane line and usually the next two markers. My breaststroke is shorter only because of the limitation that you can only do a single dolphin and a single pull before stroking.

With effort (which I reserve for master's drill which I disapprove of), I can get a little over half way before I start wanting to breath.

CoachBobM 01-09-2009 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamwhite (Post 1129)
With effort (which I reserve for master's drill which I disapprove of), I can get a little over half way before I start wanting to breath.

I did a writeup in the old forum that Terry republished in Total Swim:

http://archive.totalimmersion.net/20...aststroke.html

about how I learned to pace myself in 50y breaststroke. My original plan had been to swim the first 25 as fast as I could and then to try to duplicate that for the second 25. But one of the obstacles I encountered was that after going all out in the first 25, I couldn't stay in a streamline very long after my turn because my body wanted air too badly.

The more that I've learned how much of an advantage swimmers can gain during their streamline, the more I've realized that it doesn't pay to go all out until your last length. Of course, the more you perfect your technique and the better you condition yourself, the faster you can go during those earlier laps without "going all out"! ;-)


Bob

shuumai 01-09-2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamwhite (Post 1129)
With effort (which I reserve for master's drill which I disapprove of), I can get a little over half way before I start wanting to breath.

What's wrong with effort?

I figured out that 15 metres for me in a 25 yard pool is 1.5 streamlined body lengths beyond the centre mark. So, to be "legal" I could work on surfacing as I cross the mark. Nice and simple.

One day I want to be able to do a shooter; swimming all the way across without surfacing. With fins more than likely.

shuumai 01-09-2009 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachBobM (Post 1166)
I did a writeup in the old forum that Terry republished in Total Swim:

http://archive.totalimmersion.net/20...aststroke.html

I'm curious what your times are now. (I don't think my times would be worth mentioning due to the lack of accuracy and the large numbers. On a good day, I might be able to do a 100 yard breaststroke, though one time I went a whole 125 yards. Usually I only go 25-50 yards. I need to get that to a solid 100 if not 200.)


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