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-   O2 in H20: Breathing Skills (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   corkscrew .... (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=365)

Mike from NS 04-05-2009 12:21 PM

corkscrew ....
 
Timing the breathing is my greatest difficulty. It is something which is taking me a lot of learning time. All that has been written tells "what and how" but my learning curve is still a steep slope. No doubt with lots more practice it will fall into place as I learn to optimal degree of rotation whilst learning to maintain best case alignment and streamlined positions.

I would ask for opinions on this ... if it is thought to be helpful or possibly building a bad habit. I have been trying to proceed down the pool powered only by a gently kick (with fins) and arms at my side. As I go I rotate as if a bullet turning due to the rifling. (A very slow and multi directional bullet!) Rotation is due to mostly core muscles efforts; leaving the arms alone to follow along. My whole point is to grab air at the appropriate moment and exhale as soon as I am back face down - just to experience that part of the cycle. Sometimes patience to surface is required as I come around to the air again. I rotate clock wise during for one length and CCW on the return trip. I'm trying to get used to the "sensations" of, when it is time to breath, the "sensations" of keeping the head aligned properly and staying streamlined, as well as the feeling or development of core muscles. I can't see anything but benefits, however your opinions are appreciated.

Possibly this will transcend into rotation to the left far enough to almost sweet spot then back to the equivalent rotation to the right without the complete rotation - maybe complete rotation is a starting point to build and expand a comfort zone.

I must have seen this "drill" on a clip somewhere but that has been so long ago that I can't recall where. If this was a TI clip, then that answers my question as to whether it is considered a drill of value or not.

Thanks,
Mike

RadSwim 04-05-2009 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike from NS (Post 2598)
I must have seen this "drill" on a clip somewhere but that has been so long ago that I can't recall where. If this was a TI clip, then that answers my question as to whether it is considered a drill of value or not.


Mike-
I like the drill you describe and use it regularly. It is similar, but not exactly the same, as the fish drill from Freestyle Made Easy. This drill may have been on the first TI videos, the one with the long axis combo drills, but I haven't watched those for years.

I also do the corkscrew drill with my hands over my head in streamline and roll onto my back to breathe -- good for practicing a tight body line and core muscle control.

Clark

Mike from NS 04-05-2009 04:45 PM

Hi Clark,

I assume this drill helped then? I haven't been doing this for very long but I think it should help.

Do you feel it built your core strength and helped with breathing timing?

Fish drill, as I understand it just rotates to face down from sweetspot proir to extending an arm into skate. With a switch we continue to roll around to other side sweet spot. Correct?

So with the "corkscrew drill" the rotation I'm trying to achieve is continuous (due to core with light kicking for propulsion) without any rotational pausing. I want to focus mostly on when to inhale and when to exhale.

I must have seen this on a TI video....

Thanks,
Mike

RadSwim 04-05-2009 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike from NS (Post 2600)
Do you feel it built your core strength and helped with breathing timing?

Mike- I like the "corkscrew" drill for maintain a straight body line and for learning to control body postion without my arms (arms either at my side or "locked" above my head in streamline. Good core strength drill, as well.

For core strengthing in the pool, I really like dolphin kicks with fins.

I also have used forceful multi-switches with big rubber fins to develop rotational power. The fins are used more as an anchor than a source of kicking power; the power comes from the core driving the spearing arm forward.

No single drill has helped with breathing; a lot of little things have helped. The key milestones in finding air have been:
1. Raising lead arm to 3:00 (straight ahead) so I am not being pulled deep by a downward-angled leading arm.
2. Straightening my body line, primarily by reducing lumbar lordosis and keeping my head in neutral positon (not deep, not facing forward).
3. Shortening my power phase (pull). Forced elbow straightening in the terminal 1/4 of my ultra-long pull pushed my front end deep and away from air. I now recover as my hand passes my waist and my fingers stop pointing at the bottom of the pool and start pointing behind me, while my elbow is still partially flexed. With the earlier recovery, my head stays at the surface without bobbing deep.

Hope this helps,
Clark

Mike from NS 04-05-2009 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadSwim (Post 2601)

For core strengthing in the pool, I really like dolphin kicks with fins.

Hope this helps,
Clark

Thanks Clark,

This quoted and the others are all great suggestions. I'll study these and work on them when next in the water. I think the dolphin kicks should really help. I've only played with these but can see the value. They work the abs quite well.

Shinji's pre-Christmas suggestion for the use of the pull buoy has really helped me get better positioned and I think your points will help a great deal as well.

Mike

shuumai 04-06-2009 02:42 AM

Using fins and breaststroke kicking seems to work the abs as well as dolphin kicking with fins. (For some reason, when I turn to my back and breakstroke kick, I do have to engage the core still, but it feels like my inner thighs get worked more. Not something that happens when dolphin kicking.)

Nicodemus 08-13-2009 08:43 PM

Hi Mike
I had my own Eureka moment with breathing recently. (See my post "1 length to 1 mile in 2 weeks")


I think the answer is -

1. get in touch with your own breathing. In particular you need to really feel how far to breathe out so you are ready for a good in-breath.

2. synchronise your breathing rhythm with your stroke rhythm. This ia s matter of timing that you have to fine tune through lots of practice. At first you may need to slow everything down to really get in touch with what is going on. You will start to see there is a precise 'window of opportunity' to take your in-breath at a certain point in your stroke. The more you practice, the larger this 'window' will seem. It does not actually get larger; it just seems that way. Then you will start to realise that your lungs are too empty or too full whan the 'window' opens. Just keep working at it. Eventually your brain will bring the two rhythms into step. You will be able to time the last puff of your exhale (through your nose) just as your mouth comes to air. Then you will feel like you have plenty of time to inhale all the air you need.

(In fact when you are really relaxed with it, you won't be too bothered if you mess up a breath. You will just adjust and breathe on the next stroke. This is a bit like coughing, sneezing, sighing or yawning in normal life. These temporarily disrupt our breathing rhythm, but we don't panic do we? We adjust.)

For me, linking these two rhythms (stroke & breath) is the secret of comfortable relaxed breathing (which is what Terry said). Just stick with it and be 'mindful'. It doesn't happen overnight, but can happen fairly quickly if you make it a priority. A few days or weeks maybe. Doesn't need to be months or years. But you need to prioritise it.

Good Luck
N

Mike from NS 08-15-2009 10:08 AM

timing is everything - if relaxed...
 
Nicodemus,

Thanks for your reply and your pointers. And congratulations on your Eureka moment. I logged onto the site to re-read about your moment and methods before heading for a swim. Your post is very insightful and brought about quite a valuable set of replies.

Lately I seem to have been stuck on a plateau and should soon climb to the next level as described the the book about mastery (that was discussed on the site a while back). A couple of weeks ago I thought I had left the present plateau for the next but have regressed slightly. When the breathing worked, I recall, I maintained an unhurried and somewhat relaxed state. After each breath I'd say to myself ... well that worked ... and so on ...until I lost focus or confidence. (I think what happened was not enough ex-hale.)If it worked once it should work forever.

So today I will follow your suggestions as closely as possible. And as you say finding the rhythm takes a lot of practise. Also, I agree that the window of opportunity will seemingly get larger as the rhythms get in sync.

Your analogies are really helpful. Thanks again,

Mike

shuumai 08-15-2009 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike from NS (Post 2598)
I must have seen this "drill" on a clip somewhere but that has been so long ago that I can't recall where. If this was a TI clip, then that answers my question as to whether it is considered a drill of value or not.

An older TI video shows a corkscrew-like drill. I think it involved sweepspot and arm movements though. I have the clip somewhere.


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