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-   -   Inverted Push-off (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56)

shuumai 11-22-2008 11:40 PM

Inverted Push-off
 
What distance is typical for an inverted push-off?

Right now assume that I'm using an open turn. Later I might develop a flip turn. I practise inverted swimming by pushing off face down, diving for the bottom, then rolling to my back.

(I'm getting better at keeping water out of my nose while inverted. I do curl my lip up a bit sometimes. I still have some trouble when surfacing, but it's getting better.)

Adam 11-23-2008 04:51 AM

The distance really depends on how many dolphin kicks you use. If you don't do any at all, I think you should go for about the same lengths as in the regular push off. With Dolphin kicks this distance can be extended quite substantially.

madvet 11-24-2008 02:12 PM

Pushoff
 
I think according to the rules you are supposed to push off in the "face-up" position.

I usually aim for getting a half-body length past the flags. You can go farther, but it depends on whether you have the oxygen to burn and that your underwater is faster than your stroke.

shuumai 11-24-2008 03:57 PM

I watched young people practising at the YMCA. They tended to surface immediately after turning to backstroke. Maybe that is for safety since they were circle swimming with a lot of traffic?

Jamwhite 11-25-2008 04:04 AM

How quickly did they recover from their non-backstroke turns? If you don't have the air to stay under, then you surface.

I swam a lot of backstroke in high school (and was taught with the more yards is better philosophy so this might be totally wrong). The way that I was taught was to turn face down right before the wall, flip turn, and just don't roll back over, so I stay on my back after the turn.

Just like in freestyle, after the turn, I do a single dolphin just below the surface before starting to stroke, which puts me past the solid region of the lane rope before my first stroke.

I like the short axis strokes better, so I always enjoy the inverted dolphin because its just something fun and different.

shuumai 11-25-2008 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamwhite (Post 341)
How quickly did they recover from their non-backstroke turns? If you don't have the air to stay under, then you surface.

Just like in freestyle, after the turn, I do a single dolphin just below the surface before starting to stroke, which puts me past the solid region of the lane rope before my first stroke.

I think they go further when then are face down after the turn.

I can't get too far when inverted unless I'm face down first, then roll to my back. Tonight I tried tucking straight into the inverted position then pushing off, hands at my sides. I ran out of air too quick to have any air left by the time I surfaced.

Oh, so far I've only used flutter kicking when inverted. I did manage to break straight into an approximation of backstroke two times. Still much to learn.

madvet 11-25-2008 02:25 PM

transition after pushoff
 
Most backstrokers use an inverted dolphin after pushoff because fluttterkick alone doesn't get you more propulsion than whole-stroke. But, if you don't have a good dolphin, don't worry about it.

Also, you should push off with your hands in front of you (not at your sides), ideally on top of each other in the "standard" streamlined position.

But no matter how you do it, the most important thing is to provide a smooth transition into your whole stroke backstroke. And what is the most important thing about that? Balance, of course. When you come up to the surface of the water and start stroking, you want your body already long and high in the water -- hips up, feet up, not bending at the waist, reaching forward.

It helps me to push off at a slight downward angle, so that automatically gets my feet and hips high (in relation to the rest of my body), and then go at a lesser angle upwards. Those last 6 inches to the surface seems to be where the natural instinct is to bend at the waist and pull the arm in instead of stretching it out.

Getting this to work reasonably well took me about a year, going in fits and starts. Focusing on this aspect is more important than how far you go on your pushoff. You might find as you progress that you will automatically go farther anyway. And your overall times will improve as your transition becomes smoother and you keep the momentum from the pushoff going into your wholestroke.

Jamwhite 11-25-2008 03:17 PM

For me, backstroke pushoff is a lot like breaststroke practice on my back. Like in breaststroke, I let the air in my lungs bring me gently to the top of the water. Because I am underwater, dolphin kicking while I wait to surface keeps my pushoff momentum going longer.

Mostly because of this thread, I did a little extra backstroke in the pool today, and developed a new focal point when pushing off. In order to go from streamline to stroking more efficiently, I push off slightly rotated so that my first stroking hand is on the bottom and I move it into the catch position, pause, then stroke.

After doing this several times, I was able to keep my momentum going better because the transition from streamline to stroking was smoother.

shuumai 11-25-2008 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madvet (Post 348)
Also, you should push off with your hands in front of you (not at your sides), ideally on top of each other in the "standard" streamlined position.

The thing is, at first I was more concerned about keeping water out of my nose than getting my hands ahead of me. (I tend to blow out a lot of air as I'm initiating the roll onto my back. I don't know if that's good or just a waste of air.) Then I wondered how the haych I could get my hands ahead of me. This video seems helpful in that regard: http://www.goswim.tv/entries/5134/tu...ce-step-3.html

shuumai 11-25-2008 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamwhite (Post 350)
Mostly because of this thread, I did a little extra backstroke in the pool today, and developed a new focal point when pushing off. In order to go from streamline to stroking more efficiently, I push off slightly rotated so that my first stroking hand is on the bottom and I move it into the catch position, pause, then stroke.

After doing this several times, I was able to keep my momentum going better because the transition from streamline to stroking was smoother.

Ah. That's the way I was told to start the crawl: first pull is with the arm closest to the bottom of the pool.

I'm glad I could help. hehe This how the less experienced help the more experienced; by getting them to pay attention to old habits and maybe try something a little different.


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