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dshen 01-02-2012 02:35 PM

Strength Training for Swimming
 
Lately, I have been big on building strength. I have been using some techniques popularized in 4 Hour Body, which led me to Barry Ross's Underground Secrets to Faster Running. This then led me to Dragondoor.com and Pavel's many different strength building methods from Russia (here is a selection from amazon).

I have been deadlifting and bench pressing, and also added in some kettlebells and indian club swinging into the mix. With regards to swimming, I am finding that my shoulders don't get sore any more - first was because I was swimming with TI, but secondly, I think that my whole upper body muscle structure is more balanced and stronger.

I was wondering if anyone else has been using strength building techniques for swimming and any comments about how it has worked or not worked. Does anyone have any links to strength programs used for swimmers?

Thanks!

CoachSuzanne 01-02-2012 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dshen (Post 25073)
Lately, I have been big on building strength. I have been using some techniques popularized in 4 Hour Body, which led me to Barry Ross's Underground Secrets to Faster Running. This then led me to Dragondoor.com and Pavel's many different strength building methods from Russia (here is a selection from amazon).

I have been deadlifting and bench pressing, and also added in some kettlebells and indian club swinging into the mix. With regards to swimming, I am finding that my shoulders don't get sore any more - first was because I was swimming with TI, but secondly, I think that my whole upper body muscle structure is more balanced and stronger.

I was wondering if anyone else has been using strength building techniques for swimming and any comments about how it has worked or not worked. Does anyone have any links to strength programs used for swimmers?

Thanks!

I think what you are doing is fine. I work with a personal trainer with my cycling team adn we do 1 hour once per week of planks & TRX work along with some basic lifts & machine work (pullups & dips). I have the same feeling that my shoulders do not get as tired and I'm less fatigued int he water.

I think ongoing strength work is important beause freestyle swimming is an unbalanced activity, but the gains you see will reach diminishing returns at which point more (quality) swimming will be the key factor.

Likewise for very new people, pretty much anything will help. Strength work may even mask poor technique because people can suffer t hrough sloppy strokes a little longer, note the improvement and feel like they should continue to do more strength work to improve.

andyinnorway 01-02-2012 05:41 PM

I would be interested in some swimming (TI particularly) strength training, then I can use the communal gym at the pool on Mondays and Tuesdays as today was another round of 10 in the lane 35deg zero etiquette shambles.

Plus side was H2O audio housing is awesome. Think I'll try some debussy next time and see if I can leave the pool spiritually whilst still maintaining a physical prescense.

bx 01-02-2012 06:10 PM

Joined gym at same time as restarting swimming a year ago. Enjoy both equally. Thanks to TI, I also find a great deal of enjoyment in practising proper technique with weights. Plus, me got some pecs now :)

Happy New Year,
via Sunny Bournemouth

swim2Bfree 01-02-2012 06:27 PM

I'm not a strength coach, but my personal sense is that unless you're training to be seriously competitive in power-heavy events (100m or less), it's better to pursue a broad program of strength training - many muscles in a balanced fashion - rather than something "swim-specific" or "TI-specific." I don't know what "TI-specific" would even mean.

Free weight routines and calisthenics are great because they work stabilizer muscles and better simulate natural movements (compared to Nautilus-type machines). However, they depend on proper technique and can lead to injury if not performed correctly.

ian mac 01-02-2012 06:38 PM

A great resource for strength training for swimmers
 
One of the many important lessons that Terry continues to reinforce in me is that swimming is an integrated all body movement, not a pull/kick movement. When one accepts this, you realize that the stroke initiates from the HIP, not the arm, and the key to streamlining and swimming longer on your side comes from greater hip rotation. Consequently, much emphasis on more efficient swimming comes from strengthening the core muscles at least as much as any other part of the body.
The book "Complete Conditioning For Swimming" by Dave Salo and Scott Riewald, head swim coach of USC & former head of bio-mechanics for USA Swimming respectively, is an exceptional reference and even has a DVD demonstrating many of the exercises. While working extensively on core exercises, it has many great dry land swimming oriented workouts from beginner to advanced.
Ian

swim2Bfree 01-02-2012 06:44 PM

I will second ian mac's recommendation of Dave Salo's book. It's a goldmine of useful advice. Core strength is important in swimming, as it is in everyday life.

Richardsk 01-02-2012 06:55 PM

I'm a fan of yoga and think that the usual poses recommended for beginners are very beneficial.

There's a chap in Florida called Dr Al Sears who promotes a system he calls PACE, which is, basically, intense interval bodyweight training. It is not expensive and I think it's worth what he's asking, but you have to actually do the exercises. I find it hard to fit them in as well as the yoga and swimming and the odd bit of walking. I resolve to try harder in the New Year.

He also sells a wide variety of magic potions from remote hill tribes from high in the Andes or Bali or other exotic locations. My snake oil detectors are too highly developed to try any of these, although for all I know I may be missing out.

He does seem to be very well informed about nutrition and exercise, weight loss and other health concerns, and whatever you can think of, he has a remedy he will ship to you.

arunks 01-03-2012 12:30 PM

Came across an article you may be interested.Titled "Duration specific training".
Part1.Part2.Part3.

Arun

terry 01-03-2012 03:13 PM

Ian and Bx are correct in saying we encourage people to do strength and resistance training -- but to avoid attempting to make it 'swim-specific.'

In fact, if there is such a thing as "TI-specific" strength training it's to prioritize muscle groups in this order
1) Spinal stabilizers - the muscles that keep the body aligned -- especially when there are different, and often conflicting, forces being applied to each side of the body. These muscles (1) keep the entire bodyline toned and aligned during the stroke; (2) keep the right side aligned while left side is stroking and recovering; and (3) connect propelling actions to the power-producing weight shift.
2) Secondary movers - the small muscles - mainly in the shoulder - that hold the arm in a high-traction position (we call it the Soft Hook position) during the weight shift. These muscles are small and weak and hard to 'educate.'
3) Prime movers - the large, highly visible muscles that young men admire in the mirror between weight-heaving sets. These are waaay more than strong enough to apply the amount of power/pressure the water can handle in any event above the 50m. They're also strong enough to overwhelm the secondary movers if we apply them full-force. The instinctive tendency to overuse them is very strong and--in nearly all cases--must be UNlearned.

Many swim-specific strength programs have these priorities exactly reversed.

terry 01-03-2012 03:20 PM

If I was forced to choose only one activity with which to complement my swimming, it would unquestionably be yoga. Partly because I enjoy it more than any other. Partly because I feel its combination of mindfulness/awareness and the way it encourages supple strength is ideal for the kind of strength that applies in the water.

Since I'm not currently forced to choose, I also do strength training -- nearly all of it involving instability. E.G. Rather than bench press with a barbell, I do alternate-arm presses with dumbbells (50 lbs each) with my shoulder blades resting on a balance ball. I s-l-o-w-l-y raise right arm while s-l-o-w-l-y lowering left, and vice versa.
I complete this routine in 20 min and do it 2-3x/week immediately after yoga class.

My primary reason for the strength/weight training is its value in countering the effects of aging. And so when the snow starts to fly, I'll be able to shovel for an hour with no ill affects.

grandall 01-03-2012 04:25 PM

Dshen,

For swimming strength (TI of course) because it's core a driven technique and not shoulder driven I do alot of core exercises using a ball. I also do yoga (spine alignment/flexibility) and Tia Chi (for more relaxation and breathing). I also do lat pull downs with light weights not for bulk but for strength.

As a triathlete I do some light wieght training more to benifit my run/bike part

I think above all I swim alot that is a huge benifit in itself.

andyinnorway 01-03-2012 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry (Post 25127)
If I was forced to choose only one activity with which to complement my swimming, it would unquestionably be yoga. Partly because I enjoy it more than any other. Partly because I feel its combination of mindfulness/awareness and the way it encourages supple strength is ideal for the kind of strength that applies in the water.

Since I'm not currently forced to choose, I also do strength training -- nearly all of it involving instability. E.G. Rather than bench press with a barbell, I do alternate-arm presses with dumbbells (50 lbs each) with my shoulder blades resting on a balance ball. I s-l-o-w-l-y raise right arm while s-l-o-w-l-y lowering left, and vice versa.
I complete this routine in 20 min and do it 2-3x/week immediately after yoga class.

My primary reason for the strength/weight training is its value in countering the effects of aging. And so when the snow starts to fly, I'll be able to shovel for an hour with no ill affects.

Terry, be great if you could do a blog on your Yoga exercises or even a youtube post. Thanks. Failing that please point us in a direction for good source material.

CoachSuzanne 01-03-2012 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry (Post 25126)
. They're also strong enough to overwhelm the secondary movers if we apply them full-force. The instinctive tendency to overuse them is very strong and--in nearly all cases--must be UNlearned.

Many swim-specific strength programs have these priorities exactly reversed.

So true, so true. What's a real shame in my mind is when athletic, lean women follow these ideas as well and I see them ripping through the water and ruining their traction & streamline...because they are focused on using the prime movers. Turn those off, activate the core & the rotator cuff and you have a totally different swimmer.

dshen 01-03-2012 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry (Post 25126)
Ian and Bx are correct in saying we encourage people to do strength and resistance training -- but to avoid attempting to make it 'swim-specific.'

In fact, if there is such a thing as "TI-specific" strength training it's to prioritize muscle groups in this order
1) Spinal stabilizers - the muscles that keep the body aligned -- especially when there are different, and often conflicting, forces being applied to each side of the body. These muscles (1) keep the entire bodyline toned and aligned during the stroke; (2) keep the right side aligned while left side is stroking and recovering; and (3) connect propelling actions to the power-producing weight shift.
2) Secondary movers - the small muscles - mainly in the shoulder - that hold the arm in a high-traction position (we call it the Soft Hook position) during the weight shift. These muscles are small and weak and hard to 'educate.'
3) Prime movers - the large, highly visible muscles that young men admire in the mirror between weight-heaving sets. These are waaay more than strong enough to apply the amount of power/pressure the water can handle in any event above the 50m. They're also strong enough to overwhelm the secondary movers if we apply them full-force. The instinctive tendency to overuse them is very strong and--in nearly all cases--must be UNlearned.

Many swim-specific strength programs have these priorities exactly reversed.

Strengthening the muscles involved in the actual movement is very important. One thing I learned from reading all those materials is that we also need to strengthen other muscles, potentially the muscles that aren't directly involved in the movements. Inbalances in these muscle pairs (agonists and antagonists) can create a lot of problems also, leading to instability and injury.

By strengthen, there are again, 3 components - strength, endurance, and neuromuscular. the most interesting of the 3 is actually neuromuscular. by training with heavier weights, but not necessarily with more reps, one starts activating the neuromuscular system to its fullest. in fact, it is the correct chains of muscles across the entire body that must act in perfect concert to achieve flawless motion. if we have any muscles in the chain that are misfiring or not firing, then problems will inevitably occur.

Our sedentary lives can lead to a wasting away of not only muscles, but the nervous system's ability to fire the chain correctly. by sitting in front of our computers and our TVs, we have literally forgotten how to move!

like Terry mentioned, Prime movers are the territory of body builders, but that is not the best way to build strength. we might feel good looking like Arnold, but functionally we need to look more towards involving the whole body with strength programs rather than just isolating our biceps for big guns.

igorner 01-03-2012 09:40 PM

Just turned 60 and weight training
 
Having just turned 60 , personally , I think it important to include weight training in my regular routine. We tend to loose bone and muscle faster at certain ages...so after my swim ..its off to the the gym for me.

BTW ,having really just starting the TI method I am pleased to report much better swims.....more comfotable..and if my timex is correct much faster laps. Each individual lap is no longer the struggle it used to be.

I do get some perplexed looks form the other swimmers though...apparently I'm not playing by the rules. I'm getting much advice about using fins and flutter boards.

I don't listen.
Ian

arunks 01-04-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyinnorway (Post 25136)
Terry, be great if you could do a blog on your Yoga exercises or even a youtube post. Thanks. Failing that please point us in a direction for good source material.

Yoga is not just about physical exercises. I feel doing Yoga in itself is a great learning process for the physical, mental and the spiritual. I have found this to compliment Ti like swimming really well which provides strength and the flexibility for swimming.

The traditional way of practicing Yoga is the Ashtanga Yoga(Eight Limbs of Ashtanga). You can know more about it here. There are other style of Yoga with little variations. The sequence of Yoga asanas starts with standing poses and moves on to back bending, forward bends, arm balances, seated twists and inversions. You can practice under a teacher or guru or you could buy a DVD and a go at a slow pace until you find more confidence in doing difficult poses. Currently I am finding the videos of KinoMacgregor very useful.Click here.

There are a few asanas given here.But to practice the difficult ones, you need to master the basic ones and become more flexible.

Other Sources:Yoga Journal

Arun

razo999 07-09-2018 09:47 PM

i have the anwer
 
Meditation is a sharp technique for resting your mind and reaching a certain level of deep awareness and a state of consciousness by experiencing the core of it and heading to the center within ourselves.

But wait – there’s more
https://thoughts4spread.com/a-new-pe...tion-and-yoga/


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