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-   -   Guaranteed to Improve Stroke Length (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2013)

terry 01-28-2011 09:13 AM

Guaranteed to Improve Stroke Length
 
Try this exercise with Tempo Trainer. You may need to experiment a bit to find the tempo range that suits you best.
Swim 10 x 25. Reset TT by .1 sec. each time. On 1st 5, reset TT slower each time. On next 5, reset TT faster each time.
Count strokes on each 25 and compare.
Here's an example
1.6
1.7
1.8
1.9
2.0
1.9
1.8
1.7
1.6
1.5
How many strokes did you start with?
How many did you subtract as tempo slowed?
Was your SPL same or fewer when you returned to starting point (9th 25)?
Was it still same or fewer when you finished? (.1 faster than starting)?
Allow 3 beeps on all pushoffs to keep that part consistent.

I encourage you to do this initially at a range that takes you to a slower tempo than you have ever swum at, such as the example given. For Freestyle, I'm not sure there's a benefit to swimming above 2.0, but my experience going as high as 2.0 was eye-opening. Until I did the set as outlined above I'd never used a tempo slower than 1.5. I found that from 1.8 to 2.0 any balance flaws I had became exposed. And with the tempo as slow as it was, I could sense where and why they occurred.

You can also do this with 50s. Allow 4 extra beeps on turns. Count total strokes for 50.

I plan to repeat this once or twice a week. I'll do it either as a start-of-practice tuneup, or at the end of effortful practices to re-tune my stroke and send me to the showers feeling great.

I'll do it with both with 25s and 50s, and will probably start at a slower range, and use incrementally faster ranges over time.

I also plan to do this with Backstroke.

If you do the set, in any form, please share your results here. And if you find they improve over time, please share that too.

Eventually I want to be doing this set starting @ 1.0 and finishing @ 0.9. I'll let you know how it goes.

Richardsk 02-03-2011 03:42 PM

Hi Terry

I tried this yesterday and found it interesting. The pool was rather busy so some of the results may be affected by drafting off faster swimmers, being impeded by slower swimmers (admittedly these are less common than the faster swimmers) and so on.

I started at 1:60 as you suggested and my first length was 19 strokes
At 1:65 I think I did 18 strokes, and then a couple of 17s.

I managed one length in 16 strokes but I don't remember which one. It is very unusual for me to do less than 17 so that convinced me to try this again. Maybe starting at a slightly faster tempo and going up (and down) in smaller increments - say 1:40, 1:45 etc...

When I finished the set I thought I would start over again but the mojo seemed to have deserted me. Nevertheless it was a very interesting experience.

ames 02-04-2011 10:14 PM

Guaranteed?
 
Well, I won't be asking for my money back. Worked like magic!

I haven't used my tempo trainer much and I've always ignored the posts with all the practice set math--not because I am a woman, but because I just wasn't to that level yet. :) Still mostly working on balance issues. And I don't have any swim background so I don't understand much of the math. But this one looked simple.

I swim in a big pool and there are some goofy current things going on, often there is a distinct "uphill" and "downhill" direction, so I did each length both ways. 25 yd pool, half strokes were when I was almost there, could do an extra-long glide to make it to the end. Pushed off at the beep and took first stroke at the third beep:

1.6 15 strokes
1.6 15
1.7 14
1.7 14
1.8 13
1.8 14
1.9 13
1.9 13
2.0 12.5 whoa getting wobbly here
2.0 12.5
1.9 13
1.9 13
1.8 13
1.8 13
1.7 13.5
1.7 13.5
1.6 14
1.6 14
1.5 14
1.5 14.5

Noticed I swam differently doing this than usual. My legs were stiff, not as relaxed as I would like but definitely more streamlined. Breathing was pretty easy, maybe because I wasn't thinking about it, just letting it happen. You can definitely sense the balance issues at 1.9 and 2.0. But I did better than I thought I would! An interesting lesson, thanks Terry
ames

Richardsk 02-06-2011 06:58 PM

I had another go at this yesterday and today. I warmed up yesterday with 4x25 and was pleased that I could do them all in 17 strokes. Then I switched on the Tempo Trainer and started at 1:60. I think my first 25 was 18, after that they tended to be around the 19 mark. I don't think I got back to 17 and definitely didn't reach 16. I went back down to 1:40 or so, by which time I was over 20 for most lengths and then carried on down to 0:90, which was clearly outside my form threshold..

Today I started at 1:10, which I think is also outside my form threshold at the moment and worked up to 1:60 and back down to 1:20. Instead of doing single lengths of 25m I was doing sets of four to get used to the feel of the various settings. I felt most comfortable around the 1:40 and 1:50 settings, so I think for future practices I will try to work outward from this range in both directions.
Again, today, I don't think I did any lengths in less than 18.

Fascinating stuff!

pinguin 02-07-2011 09:09 AM

My experience in a 50m-pool was like this:
. SR 34 from 1.6 to 1.8
. SR 32 from 1.9 to 2.0
about the same when going down the "beep-pyramid".

I liked it, had no problem with balance, gliding,...

My problem seems to be that I can't "use" the knowhow of gliding when trying to swim faster. Seems I end up in a kind of struggle when I try to use the high elbow more effectively, try to grab the water,... I'll try to use the TT moreoften and see if I can get a better SR with less beeps.

Thank you Terry to "allow" me to swim much slower than I usually do :-) (usually I feel o.k. with ~ 1.20).

ames 02-07-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinguin (Post 17019)
My problem seems to be that I can't "use" the knowhow of gliding when trying to swim faster. Seems I end up in a kind of struggle when I try to use the high elbow more effectively, try to grab the water,...

For me, this exercise taught me that I didn't have to think so hard about high elbows or try to grab the water. As I slowed down and focused on hitting the beeps, my muscles automatically adjusted and I became more efficient. Then, when I started picking up the pace, that streamlined, efficient feeling was still fresh in my "muscle memory" and it carried into the faster tempo.

At this point, I am not really concerned with going faster, but if I were I guess the first thing I would do is find ways to reduce my drag, rather than generating more propulsive power. My stroke length would go up and then it would be a matter of math and playing with tempo to find the pace I could maintain.

I swam about 30 min. today, and just wasn't feeling it. So I did the exercise again and it worked like a charm. Single lengths this time:

1.6 16 strokes
1.7 15
1.8 14
1.9 13
2.0 13
1.9 13
1.8 14
1.7 14
1.6 15
1.5 15

ames

haschu33 02-07-2011 08:29 PM

I haven't seen any pool for about 2 or 3 weeks. My wife had to stay at home and is forced to stay there for a few days - the clinic where she works put her under quarantine - maybe norovirus. I googled norovirus and found out that it has no fat layer around and laughs about alcohol (a very high pitched slightly irritating laughter **:::** ) but it hates CHLORINE - there we go! I went to the pool, full of NASTY CHLORINATED water, and I did NOT use my nose clip. Strange idea maybe - but it was FUN.

It was so wonderful to do some strokes again...

I did this pyramid, took my time (it was a lot of work - I tried to maintain a low SPL), and I also don't get my money back:

TT - Time increase/Time decrease
1.5 - 16/16 -- 15/15
1.6 - 15/15 -- 15/15
1.7 - 15/15 -- 14/14
1.8 - 14/14 -- 14/15
1.9 - 14/14 -- 13/14
2.0 - - - 13/13

1.9 and 2.0 is reeaaally slow, thought I drown before the third beep on the push off at 2.0. Have to do some practice with 1.9 and 2.0 - completely out of rhythm.

Hang on in there...

terry 02-07-2011 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ames (Post 17023)
For me, this exercise taught me that I didn't have to think so hard about high elbows or try to grab the water. As I slowed down and focused on hitting the beeps, my muscles automatically adjusted and I became more efficient. Then, when I started picking up the pace, that streamlined, efficient feeling was still fresh in my "muscle memory" and it carried into the faster tempo.

At this point, I am not really concerned with going faster,

Ames
You totally grasp the value of this practice. It greatly increases the likelihood that the improvement - then retention - of efficiency will be a natural process, one done far more by feel than thought.

And though you weren't concerned with going faster, in fact that was precisely the outcome. A 15-SPL lap at 1.5 is 1.5 sec faster than a 16-spl lap.
The best kind of speed is that which comes without 'trying.'

johnny.widen 02-08-2011 09:52 PM

This is what I did today:

1.6 12+, 12+
1.7 11+, 11+
1.8 11, 11
1.9 11, 11
2.0 10, 10
1.9 10+, 10+
1.8 11, 11
1.7 11, 11
1.6 11, 11
1.5 12, 12

I then continued with
1.4 12+, 12+
1.3 13, 13
1.2 13, 13
1.1 14, 14
1.0 14, 14
1.0 15, 15 (was a little bit out of focus)
1.0 14, 14

When reading some posts after my swimming I realized that I missed the three beep push off. I just pushed off as normal, so the length of it is constant through the whole set. I don't know how the three beeps would have changed the counts. I'll try that the next time.

Before I did this set I swam my usual warm up consisting of
100m free + 100m back + 100m breast + 100m free = 400m (the first 100m should be butterfly, but deltoid muscle pain in my left arm prevent me from doing butterfly for about a year. I also feel it when I try to do early vertical forearm drills with a rubber band)
4 x [(14m 2*superman glide + 36m spear) + (14m 2*superman glide + 36m swing) + (14m 2*superman glide + 36m whole stroke)]
(the two superman glide varies between 13m and 15m)
= 4 x 3 x 50m = 600m

This is where I did the above set.

Then I put the TempoTrainer to 1.3 and swam with focus points on reaching far and the rotation
100m 13 - 14
200m 13 - 15
300m 13 - 16
200m 13 - 15
100m 13 - 15
As you can see I was not able to hold the number of strokes. In this series and also in the previous one I pushed (or was it pull?) rather hard and got rather fatigue, thus a higher stroke count on the last lengths. Am I pushing to hard?

I then swam down 300m easy without TempoTrainer, it was something 1.3, 1.4 but with effortless push. Swimming like this I felt I could go on forever. This make me think wether my goal should be to swim hard and try to get fast or if I should just relax and swim effortless and enjoy each stroke regardless of speed. The fighting spirit in me tells me to go for speed...

When writing this, I just remembered another thread where CoachErikD wrote
Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachEricD (Post 15271)
Johnny,
... you can swim with the intention to spear forward or you can swim with the intention to pull forward. Something happens when you think about the recovery arm slicing forward and dragging your body with it that makes the speed much easier. I do not understand the physics of it. But I am getting used to seeing things that make no sense to me. I just know it works.

and this was also second by CoachSuzanne.

I will certainly try this as a focal point next time in the pool.

-- Johnny

johnny.widen 02-11-2011 10:32 PM

I did it... 9 strokes for 25m!
 
As you guaranteed Terry, I improved my stroke length today:

After normal warm up ...
100m free + 100m back + 100m breast + 100m free = 400m
4 x [(14m 2*superman glide + 36m spear) + (14m 2*superman glide + 36m swing) + (14m 2*superman glide + 36m whole stroke)]
(the two superman glide varies between 13m and 15m)
= 4 x 3 x 50m = 600m

... I did the following, with a three beep push off this time, however hard for low tempo. I almost lost speed before the first stroke.

18x50m
Tempo Stroke/length
1.6 12, 12
1.7 11, 11
1.8 11, 11
1.9 11, 11
2.0 10-, 9
1.9 10, 10
1.8 10, 10
1.7 11, 11
1.6 11, 11
1.5 11, 11

1.4 12, 12
1.3 12, 12
1.2 12, 12
1.1 13, 13
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14

Since counting is digital and the actual strokes when swimming are analog, it is sometimes hard to get an integer, thereby the first 10- on 2.0, where it was 10, but the last stroke was really short.

This swim session ended with
200m 1.3 13 - 15
200m 1.4 13 - 14

4 x 50m easy
50m back
50m breast
2 x 25m earhop
2 x 25m one arm, breathing on opposite side
2 x 25m one arm, breathing on same side
2 x 25m very easy

When I initially did all the drills in the Self coached DVD, the hardest drill was the one arm swim. I have now done it from time to time, but not that often and now it feels quite easy, even when I breath on the same side as the stroking arm. I think other drills have influenced this improvement.

-- Johnny

WaiNaam 02-13-2011 02:54 AM

I wanted to try this set because I struggle with counting my strokes and don't feel comfortable using the tempo trainer yet. I swim in a 50 meter pool and did 2 lengths at each tempo. My results:

1.6 33/33
1.7 32/32
1.8 31/31
1.9 30/30
2.0 29/29
1.9 29/30
1.8 30/31
1.7 31/31
1.6 32/32
1.5 33/34

I usually have trouble keeping a focal thought and trying to count at the same time. I used just one stroke thought through the whole set and that was feeling support of the water in my armpit. Because it was so slow it wasn't hard to keep track of my counts. Some lengths I counted my kick, sometimes hips, sometimes arms. The 2.0 was really hard for me and I felt really off balance. Until today I have never had fewer than 39 SPL in a 50 meter pool. Terry, I like your idea of repeating this set once a week. Thanks - it was fun!

terry 02-15-2011 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny.widen (Post 17261)
As you guaranteed Terry, I improved my stroke length today:
2.0 10-, 9

When I initially did all the drills in the Self coached DVD, the hardest drill was the one arm swim. I have now done it from time to time, but not that often and now it feels quite easy, even when I breath on the same side as the stroking arm. I think other drills have influenced this improvement.

-- Johnny

Johnny
To my knowledge, you're the first person, other than Shinji, to have reported a 9-stroke 25m lap. Congratulations.
Last week, during my visit to Tokyo, I did a series of 25s as follows
2 x 25 each at
1.7
1.6
1.5
1.4
1.3

1.4
1.5
1.6
1.7

1.6
1.5
1.4
1.3
1.2

1.3
1.4
1.5
1.6

1.5
1.4
1.3
1.2
1.1

This was the first time I'd tried down-up-down-up-down.
I went down by 5 intervals of .01, but only up by 4 intervals, so the slowest and fastest tempos got progressively faster.

One effect that was good was that my lowest SPL, which was 11, I achieved first at 1.7, then at 1.6 in the 3rd round, then at 1.5 in the 5th round.

What I've always liked most about Tempo Trainer sets is seeing how rapidly the nervous system adapts.

johnny.widen 02-16-2011 09:06 PM

Terry, I will play with your down-up-down-up-down variant some day to see what happens. It sounds interesting.

Yesterday I repeated the previous series with step of 0.2. I don't know if the larger step or that I had a little lack of time, that I didn't really got to 9 today. I ended up at something a little bit more than 9 but not really 10.

1.4 13, 12
1.6 12, 12
1.8 11, 11
2.0 10-, 9+
1.8 10, 10
1.6 11, 11
1.4 12, 12
1.2 12, 12

I will arrange for filming of my stroke doing this, because I am very curious how it looks. I am even more curious of how it looks with higher tempos. I also did a suite inspired by Lennart Larsson in another thread on Kicking and sprinting:
http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...ead.php?t=2084
I describe my feelings there.

I also did some one arm swim, this time with 2-beat kick and it worked well. So far I have done it with flutter kick except for the very first time when I followed the self coach lessons DVD. As I recall it from the DVD it was 2-beat kick which resulted that I almost drowned doing it. It was a real relief when I watched the DVD and saw that Terry used flutter kick. :-)

-- Johnny

yann 02-20-2011 08:25 PM

Hi,

It's been two weeks I'm doing this set, and I'm still improving. My results (in color) are here:
SPL monitoring

I tried to increase the SPL range to reach 1.0 to see when and how my SPL explodes. Then I decided, in the idea of not practicing struggle, to avoid 18 SPL and higher.

I must say 1.0 SPL feel really (too) fast. Does anyone feel comfortable at this speed? For me 1.3-1.4 is the maximum I fell not rushing.

I must say the 2.0 SPL allows to feel the water variation in my grip. That became my new palyground for experimentation.

I also noticed that without TT, I can't reach 15 SPL or less easily. This is my new area for improvement.

flppr 03-02-2011 04:44 AM

Looking back over my old notes, I used to require 17 strokes to cross 25 yards at the beginning of this pyramid set, but now I only need 16. 3-beep pushoff:
1.0: 16,16
1.1: 15,15
1.2: 14,14
1.3: 14,13
1.4: 13,13
1.5: 12,12
1.4: 13,12
1.3: 13,13
1.2: 14,14
1.1: 15,15
1.0: 16,16

KenW 03-05-2011 09:05 PM

This is my first post here on TI. I've been swimming with a masters program since December 2003. When I started, I could barely get across the pool, and I think my stroke count was about 24. I've been aware of TI for at least a few years and have dabbled with it on and off. A couple months ago, I decided to dedicate myself to it for a few months and see where it takes me. It has completely revolutionized my stroke.

Before a couple months ago, I would swim long distances with 17-20 SPL at about 1:32/100yd pace. Now, I am able to swim at about 15-17 SPL at about the same pace with much less effort.

All the following are with a 3 beep pushoff.

Here are the results of this drill:
1.6 13
1.7 12
1.8 12
1.9 12 very wobbly
2.0 12 very, very wobbly. over-rotated during two strokes.
1.9 12 very wobbly but less than the first 1.9
1.8 12
1.7 12
1.6 12 one spl better
1.5 13

I decided to continue increasing the tempo to see what would happen.
1.4 14
1.3 14
1.2 14
1.1 15
1.0 15
0.9 15
0.8 17 felt very rushed. never got into a good rhthym.

I did some skate and spear switch drills to try to improve on my balance and started back at 2.0.

2.0 11 still wobbly but much better than the first time around.
1.9 12
1.8 12
1.7 12
1.6 12
1.5 12 one spl better than the first go.
1.4 13 one spl better than the first go.

This was an excellent exercise from a couple perspectives. First, as evidenced by the SPL improvements, there is immense learning at the slower tempos. Second, it is great feedback that I was not as balanced as I thought I was. This prompted me to focus on my spear drills more. It added focus and added awareness to the (25 skate + 25 2 pause spear + 25 continuous spear + 25 swim) drills that followed. On the swims, I set the TT to 1.3 and all were at 14 SPL which is excellent for me.

I am going to try this repeatedly and until I do not see improvement.

If anybody can shed some light on why there is only a 1 SPL difference between my 1.5 and 2.0 tempo, I would appreciate it.

terry 03-07-2011 03:05 PM

Asymmetric Tempo Pyramid
 
Here is my practice from this morning at Coronado (CA) Municipal Pool (50m)
Tuneup
50 - 100 - 150 - 200 FR. Between each 50 BK
I swam this with Balance thoughts/sensations and soft hands. Maintained 35-36 SPL on FR and 39-40 SPL on BK

Main Set
11 x 100 FR, changing tempo and counting strokes on each.
This was a first-time set which I think I'll call Asymmetrical Tempo Pyramid since I slowed tempo by .1 sec, then increased it again by smaller increments - .05, then .02. This was my favorite version so far of slower-faster tempo practice.

My plan was to make this an 'open set' in which # of repeats would be determined by what happened with SPL and Tempo.
#1 @1.10 & 80 strokes
#2 @1.20 & 75 strokes
#3 @1.30 & 70 strokes
Having taken off 10 strokes (increased efficiency over 10%) I decided to reverse tempo but by the smaller increment of .05 sec/100

#4 to 7 @1.25-1.20-1.15-1.10.
Stroke count was 76 when I returned to my original temp of 1.10 - meaning my time was 4.4 sec faster. Since I was still below my original stroke count of 80 I decided to continue increasing tempo to find out how far below 1.10 I could get before I returned to original stroke count of 80. But I reduced increment still more to .02.

#8-11 @1.08-1.06-1.04-1.02 I finally returned to 80 strokes @ 1.02.
How much faster did I swam an 80-stroke 100 @ 1.02 than @ 1.10?
80 strokes x .08 sec = 6.4 sec faster.

If I held this improved pace for 1500m that would result in an improvement of 1min 36sec despite not trying to swim faster.

That's why I like the magic of 'speed math' and favor neurally-specific, over aerobically-generic, training.

mandll 03-09-2011 01:34 AM

Hi. The first time I did this set last week I inadvertently did it backwards:) I have done it a few times correctly since at slightly different starting points. Here are my results:

Last week I tried it starting at 1.4 and the results were:

1.4: 12
1.5: 12
1.6: 11+
1.7: 11
1.8: 11
1.7: 11
1.6: 11
1.5: 11+
1.4: 12
1.3: 12+


This morning I started at 1.6 and the results were:

1.6: 11
1.7: 10+
1.8: 10
1.9: 10
2.0: 9
1.9: 9+
1.8: 10
1.7: 10
1.6: 10+


The plus means I had to glide a bit into the wall because I was too close for another stroke but not quite hitting the wall at the lower stroke count. There was some improvement on the way back up compared to coming down in both sets. Obviously I performed better today than the prior attempt last week. This may have been the result of where I placed the set within my workout. This mornings was done before my main set whereas last weeks was done after. So I think fatigue played a part on reduced performance in the first attempt vs the second one.

Thanks

mark

cycosuicide 04-29-2011 08:14 PM

Tried this...wow!
 
So I did just that today. I forgot some of the numbers except that which is shown here

1.6 14/15
1.7
1.8
1.9
2.0 12
1.9
1.8
1.7
1.6 13 Wow! It worked. I actually took a stroke off.
1.5 13

I decided to keep going down for the Hell of it.

1.4 13
1.3 13/14

Finally at 1.0, it was 17 strokes.

I am going to do this again. I must admit, 1.6 was easy and glorious. It was an absolute pleasure to swim at this rate even though I wasn't going very fast.

Thanks Terry

terry 04-29-2011 10:21 PM

I'm glad to see more of you trying this set. When I first posted this set I suggested first slowing tempo by one-tenth, then speeding it again by the same interval.
Later I suggested doing an asymmetric version. Slow tempo by .1, then return to your starting point by .05 instead. I found I got better results this way. Letting my nervous system adapt to increasing tempo in smaller increments seems to help me maintain Stroke Length better.
If you've already tried it as a series of 25s, try it with 50s instead.

For a set of 10 x 50, you can slow tempo over the first 4, then return to your starting point over the next 6.
For example:
1.2
1.3
1.4
1.5
1.45
1.40
1.35
1.30
1.25
1.20

If you're successful at finishing the set at a lower count than you started, try again a few days or a week later, but start the set at a tempo .05 faster.
1.15
1.25
1.35
1.45
1.40
1.35
1.30
1.25
1.20
1.15
Can you hold the same SPL range as previously? If no, keep that range for your next go. If yes, start lower again on your next go.

armagh 08-01-2011 05:25 PM

First time trying this set...won't be the last
 
Pool is currently set up LCM, so these are 50 meter results.

1.6/36
1.7/34
1.8/33
1.9/31
2.0/29
1.9/30
1.8/30
1.7/32
1.6/33
1.5/34
(added the next two out of curiosity)
1.4/34
1.3/36

At 2.0 my axial stability was seriously compromised, graphically demonstrating the value of using the lead hand as an anchor and manitaining stability with core muscles. Some good insights into improving skating practice came from this interval.

The other obvious result is in the the fewer strokes taken on the down side of the pyramid. I plan to repeat this, probably every other week for a while.

TomH 08-23-2011 05:30 PM

In a 25y pool, I don't remember all of the numbers, just at the top and bottom laps:

1.30 14
1.35
1.40
1.45
1.50 11
1.45
1.40
1.35
1.30 13

Worked nicely for me, I now have a goal of swimming 200 y at 13 to 14.

After this set, I swam a number of 150 to 200 yard sets at 14 to 15 SPL. Usually, the first 2 laps were easy at 14, and by the time I was finishing lap 3 or 4, a SPL of 15 was hard or impossible to maintain. I would stop the set as soon as I swam a lap where I couldn't hold 15.

Now I am curious about 50 m results for this exercise, I'll try to get to a 50 m pool next week and will post the results.

celeslau 09-27-2011 06:31 AM

How frequent is too frequent for neurally-specific training
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by terry (Post 18045)
That's why I like the magic of 'speed math' and favor neurally-specific, over aerobically-generic, training.

I'm a little late in catching on this thread here, but achieved personally amazing results using the suggested TT sets by Terry. I'm 5"4' and managed to reduce my SPL for 50m from 55 to 44 with TT at 1.6 on my very first attempt.

My question here is, since practice sets like these are what Terry refers to as 'neurally-specific' instead of 'aerobically-generic', am I over doing it if I practice them on alternate days in my enthusiasm? Does my neural circuits need to take a 'break' and revisit these sets a week/couple days later? Esp when I see no further improvements, or worst deteriorate from earlier achievements?

There was another post in this thread where Terry mentioned, 'If you're successful at finishing the set at a lower count than you started, try again a few days or a week later...' Not tomorrow?

Does less = more like in the 'go slow to go fast' concept?

terry 11-14-2011 10:20 PM

Neurally-specific Practice 11-14-11
 
I wouldn't worry about doing neurally-oriented or neurally-specific training. In fact, it's the ONLY kind I do. Here's today's practice. A little background. I returned last Tuesday (Nov 8) from three weeks in Turkey and Israel. I was fortunate to have been able to do over 40km of sea swimming during my 10 days in Israel. But I hadn't practiced for a week prior to today. My last swim was 3.2km in the Mediterranean last Monday Nov 7. For the past five days I've been working our Coach Certification Course in Coral Springs and lacked time (and energy) to practice. We finished the course at 2pm today and 30 minutes later I was in Coral Springs' 50m pool Here's what I did.

Set #1
16 x 100 Asymmetric Tempo Pyramid - counting strokes with a goal of reducing strokes/100.
I swam with the following tempo's
6 x 100 Slowing Tempo - 1.25 - 1.30 - 1.35 - 1.40 - 1.45 - 1.50
I took 77 strokes @ 1.25 which I reduced to 64 strokes @ 1.50.
Then 10 x 100 Progressively Faster Tempo as follows
1.47-1.44-1.41-1.38-1.35-1.32-1.29-1.26-1.23-1.20
I took only 73 strokes for 100m @ 1.20

What does this mean with regard to time?
77 strokes @ 1.25 (adding 6 beeps for pushoffs = 1m 43s
73 strokes @ 1.20 = 1m 34s
So 4 fewer strokes and faster tempo resulted in 9 sec improvement in 100m pace.

Set #2
5 x Broken 200 (150 Cruise - Rest 10 beeps - 50 Strong)
I did these @ 1.20-1.23-1.22-1.21-1.20
I generally held 37-38 SPL during the 150s and improved by 3 SPL on the final 50m after resting 10 sec. That final 50 was markedly more effortful.

jenson1a 11-15-2011 12:49 PM

Is this type of practice also beneficial to a person who still has basic issues? Issues like legs not being straight, streamline, still experiencing drag?

I have tried this on 3 separate occasions and have gotten widely varied results--nothing like what others have been reporting. On the first 2 tries, I was using a very exaggerated 2 beat kick with legs flailing alll over the place. On the last try, I got increased spl but I was less tired and not out of breath so much.

I guess what I am asking is at what stage do you start introducing some of these sets?

terry 11-15-2011 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenson1a (Post 23353)
I guess what I am asking is at what stage do you start introducing some of these sets?

These sets work best when you have well-developed Balance and Streamlining skills. If you feel legs flailing, you're not there yet.

CoachJohnnyWiden 11-26-2017 06:03 PM

Is age just a number?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny.widen (Post 17261)
As you guaranteed Terry, I improved my stroke length today:

...

... I did the following, with a three beep push off this time, however hard for low tempo. I almost lost speed before the first stroke.

18x50m
Tempo Stroke/length
1.6 12, 12
1.7 11, 11
1.8 11, 11
1.9 11, 11
2.0 10-, 9
1.9 10, 10
1.8 10, 10
1.7 11, 11
1.6 11, 11
1.5 11, 11

1.4 12, 12
1.3 12, 12
1.2 12, 12
1.1 13, 13
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14
1.0 14, 14

-- Johnny

This was six years ago!

In my Fast Forward (Smart Speed) group we followed this thread and yesterday we ran the following session and here is my result

25x50 with a small pause at each turn
1.60 13, 13
1.70 12, 12
1.80 12, 12
1.90 11, 11
2.00 11, 11
1.95 11, 11
1.90 11, 11
1.85 11, 11
1.80 11, 11
1.75 11, 11
1.70 11, 11
1.65 11, 11
1.60 12, 12

1.55 12, 12
1.50 12, 12
1.45 12, 12
1.40 12, 12
1.35 13, 13
1.30 13, 13
1.25 13, 13
1.20 13, 14
1.15 14, 14
1.10 14, 14
1.05 14, 14
1.00 14, 14

The guarantee still applies! :-)
I couldnít repeat what I did six years ago. Could it be an age issue or is age really just a number? 63 then, 69 today.
Or is it something else? I have been practicing less than usual this Summer and Autumn, that could be one reason. I might also have put in more effort six years ago. I donít remember. I will try it later on with more power and see if there is a difference and if I can repeat the nine stroke length.


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