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-   -   fly vs free (http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=650)

daveblt 08-06-2009 02:05 AM

fly vs free
 
I was wondering if I could get some opinions on this .In the book Extraordinary swimming Terry mentions that freestyle is the most difficult stroke to master and butterfly is the most grueling. I Was thinking maybe butterfly is the most grueling and the most difficult to master ? Or at least for some ? Any thoughts?


Dave

ayesr 08-06-2009 05:28 AM

The elegance & grace of freestyle...
 
I believe, one has to consider other aspects of freestyle, that might not be evident in butterfly, and thus, consider freestyle as the more difficult stroke to master. One such aspect as grace for instance, which one may not readily see in butterfly. I've even read a description of the freestyle stroke as "elegant". Now if elegance & grace are to be considered as the other dimensions in freestyle...then I would tend to agree that it is one difficult stroke to master vis-a-vis butterfly.

After learning freestyle & butterfly the TI way - which I just began earnestly less than four months ago - and even having a certain degree of "voodooism" in my 2BK, I am still far from being consistent and graceful, even for just a couple of laps, in my spear entry. Also, I would like to and still far from having "graceful & elegant" glide.

Surprisingly, yesterday, in the midst of a rainstorm, and after doing a 2K session of freestyle & breaststroke, I finally did 4 X 50M butterfly. And I felt more satisfied - performance-wise - with my butterfly than with my freestyle. Consider also that I have not done butterly in 50's. It has always been in tandem with a mini-fly or freestyle (because you are right it is just too grueling).

Caveat...considering that all these being subjective, personal...this input maybe highly biased. For sure...he he he!

End.

CoachBobM 08-06-2009 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveblt (Post 4847)
I was wondering if I could get some opinions on this .In the book Extraordinary swimming Terry mentions that freestyle is the most difficult stroke to master and butterfly is the most grueling. I Was thinking maybe butterfly is the most grueling and the most difficult to master ? Or at least for some ? Any thoughts?


Dave

What is particularly difficult about freestyle, I think, is breathing. When you're doing backstroke, you hardly even need to think about breathing. When you're doing breaststroke or butterfly, there's a point in the stroke where it's natural to breathe. But if you do freestyle in the most natural way, you don't breathe at all. You have to alter the natural stroke to fit in breathing. So you have breathing strokes and non-breathing strokes, and they're not entirely the same.

When people have trouble mastering butterfly, it's usually because of the way it's being taught.


Bob

shuumai 08-07-2009 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveblt (Post 4847)
I was wondering if I could get some opinions on this .In the book Extraordinary swimming Terry mentions that freestyle is the most difficult stroke to master and butterfly is the most grueling. I Was thinking maybe butterfly is the most grueling and the most difficult to master ? Or at least for some ? Any thoughts?

Didn't Terry just write that butterfly has the /reputation/ of being the most grueling stroke to learn? Since I started learning to swim a little over 1.5 years ago, I recall ALL strokes as being "grueling" at first. Butterfly continues to challenge me the most, but it isn't as grueling as it used to be.

To put a positive spin on the butterfly, maybe think of it as the most satisfying or impressive stroke to master. hehe Really, it doesn't seem to be a practical stroke so what purpose does it serve other than to be cool?

Adam 08-07-2009 07:29 AM

I think original meaning was that freestyle has the most complex movements (although I personally think Breaststroke is more complex), while Butterfly is the most tiring stroke.

If you compare both strokes using these definitions I think it's hard to argue with the text. Even the most accomplished butterflyers in the world can't swim with an efficient stroke for 1.5km.

I also think Butterfly can be much more elegant than Freestyle. It's not easy to make Freestyle seem easy, but it's much harder to do the same with Butterfly. When I see someone swimming Butterfly in what seems to be complete relaxation, it is much more impressive (and therefore looks more elegant) than seeing them do the same with Freestyle.

splashingpat 08-07-2009 07:13 PM

breaststroke is so easy and comfortable to me
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 4889)
I think original meaning was that freestyle has the most complex movements (although I personally think Breaststroke is more complex), while Butterfly is the most tiring stroke.

If you compare both strokes using these definitions I think it's hard to argue with the text. Even the most accomplished butterflyers in the world can't swim with an efficient stroke for 1.5km.

I also think Butterfly can be much more elegant than Freestyle. It's not easy to make Freestyle seem easy, but it's much harder to do the same with Butterfly. When I see someone swimming Butterfly in what seems to be complete relaxation, it is much more impressive (and therefore looks more elegant) than seeing them do the same with Freestyle.


the up & down movement worked out so easily for me...
once I learned to bop...

at first my kick was a frog kick...how we teach kicks (it works)
monkey <>
to airplane /\
to solder ll
then I taught the madvet....(how to whip kick!)
a little bit tougher....


but now I think he forgot all about pat . . .
because now he using the tempo trainer and I will probable need one!

to keep up with him now...

Hi guys . . .
I thnk I made a few friends,
splash'n'pat

the having the arms above and out of the water bother me ...
not so much is CRAWL OR (FREE as everyone refers to it!)
is hard on my shoulders!

Hi David,Adam, shuumai (Hi guys . . .

my butterfly is definitely a drownin'moth!

so when startin' out at the pool....
(would you could you)
start out with your worst stroke,
and be embarressed then just to show off with your best stuff

hi Master McAdams
without a "TI COACH"
encouragin' me I probable would not could not let others see me making such a fool of myself,
but today I can!
thanks once again Bob!


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